Shirk is amazing. (Ethics)

[Mnemosynia]

snip

And shirk is beneficial when? For fight u have tank swaps in and what? You change one gcd with no use of shirk maybe two if you don't know what your doing and that outweighs the potential damage reduction you get which will allow for healers to heal you less and do more and allow you to stay out of tank stance and make you blow less defensive cds?

You just don't understand how the flow of combat works, Do you realize how rare it is to not be crit for 25seconds? If you don't you've never paid attention to the numbers your taking ever you've only cared about the numbers you've dealt and if thats the case you should put down the class and dps. I'm convinced we are ideologically different you want more dps i want more versatility and freedom to stance dance without having to blow other cd's. I've done tank swaping with out shirk and i will continue to do it.

You can pick up that role skill that we have all been doing fine with out including you ill take awareness and do my aoe pulls mostly out of tank stance while you run around trying to find some scrub tank to shirk for.

[FPZ]

So forfeit one of the best raid dps-increasing abilities tanks have been given for a 2 minute long cd that lasts for 25 seconds? Something that only MIGHT be beneficial? Or a minute long cd which, again, MIGHT be beneficial? I really don't think you've done any high-end tanking if you think this is a good idea. Take the guaranteed benefit over a potential one, every single time. And in case you're wondering, yes: dps is king. Kill the encounter faster, healers have to heal less. Crazy how that works.

He's trolling or genuinely believes the nonsense he is spewing, the guy isn't even level 70 so he's just got nothing to do but troll, best to put it on ignore, you won't get any sense out of replying to it. He's jealous and bitter, can't adapt to the meta of tank damage and has never tanked anything high level in his life without echo or nerfs, hence the spite against those who want to push themselves. Guy literally doesn't exist in any raid logs and is still level 60, so this only confirms it.

The FFXIV forums get a bad rep a lot of the time, this guy is a prime example of terrible advice & a terrible attitude, a great example of what NOT to be when trying to progress your skill in a game, posting more on the forums then actually getting good in game. o/

[Mnemosynia]

He's trolling or genuinely believes the nonsense he is spewing, the guy isn't even level 70 so he's just got nothing to do but troll, best to put it on ignore, you won't get any sense out of replying to it.

The FFXIV forums get a bad rep a lot of the time, this guy is a prime example of terrible advice & a terrible attitude, a great example of what NOT to be when trying to progress your skill in a game.

The ff forums gets a bad rep because its filled with people who are wasting a skill slot on something that we were doing with one skill for three years and we have scrubs claiming to be good saying its mandatory because its impossible to swap or do good dps with out after the years of doing tank swaps and doing good dps with out said skill. I'm out of this thread you guys are idiots.

[Kabooa]

"How are tanks supposed to keep a threat lead so we can DPS stance?"

Shirk.

"Wow this skill isn't even necessary, why even bring it, we were doing swaps just fine without this before."

[SpookyGhost]

@Mnemosynia: Now that I've sat down and thought about it for a bit, I kinda see where you're coming from and also kinda don't. I don't agree that Awareness is stronger than Shirk by default - it's simply not true. With Awareness you can use it and reduce 0 crits thus meaning that the CD did literally nothing. Let's say you did mitigate a bunch of crits throughout the fight, what actually crit? Most likely, a bunch of autos. Autos are covered by regens/fairy whether they're crits or not. This has always been the case. Even if we want to say that Shirk isn't much of a DPS increase, it works 100% of the time every time and will always give you that extra DPS. Awareness, meanwhile, may prevent some damage but even if it does it won't really matter. You could argue that it prevents crit autos after a tank buster, but in the situation where you know to use Awareness your healers know there's a tank buster so they're pre-casting heals anyway (or using oGCD heals w/e).

Where I actually kinda see your point is in fights with 100% crit rate, where Awareness is actually really useful. I made the argument that Conva would be a better replacement for Awareness and I'm having trouble figuring out if that's actually the best option. I feel like for PLD it's fine since Conva doesn't do a crazy amount for PLD, but on DRK and WAR it helps a lot - DRK for LD (assuming no Bene) and WAR for pairing with Thrill as well as creating the strongest spread Adlo. Shirk is a DPS increase but does it actually outweigh the benefits of Conva? I dunno, and you obviously can't replace Voke, Rampart, or Reprisal. Tricky thing to think about, though it also assumes that there's even gonna be a fight with 100% crit this expansion.

Also if we got another fight like A2S you'd definitely take Awareness over Shirk, but who knows if we'll ever get another one of those.

[Hruodig]

He's trolling or genuinely believes the nonsense he is spewing, the guy isn't even level 70 so he's just got nothing to do but troll, best to put it on ignore, you won't get any sense out of replying to it. He's jealous and bitter, can't adapt to the meta of tank damage and has never tanked anything high level in his life without echo or nerfs, hence the spite against those who want to push themselves. Guy literally doesn't exist in any raid logs and is still level 60, so this only confirms it.

The FFXIV forums get a bad rep a lot of the time, this guy is a prime example of terrible advice & a terrible attitude, a great example of what NOT to be when trying to progress your skill in a game, posting more on the forums then actually getting good in game. o/

Understood. I'm not necessarily replying to him to try to change his mind, I'm more talking to anyone who's lurking who's wondering if shirk is worth taking in 8 man content or not.

If you're lurking: take shirk in 8 man content.

[RitsukoSonoda]

I ended up adding shirk to my hotbar for swaps after I kept pulling hate back on swaps while in sword oath on pld...

Honestly dunno why this is an issue now as it very rarely happened before stormblood on PLD, WAR, or DRK.

[Velcan]

I know i am late but as a healer I like it way more when tanks take shirk over awareness. If the tanks bring shirk, and the ninja shadewalks I can start the fight with ALL of my regens, and dps without worry of taking aggro. The best part is with all those regens the tank stays safe near 100% until they are gone assuming the other healer went big with what they have as well.

[Lannybaby]

Wow, I had a very similar experience, the other day.

I was on my RDM, the other day, and we had just reached the second boss of the lv 63 dungeon. We had a BRD bashing the tank for not stance-dancing when enough enmity had been established. Technically, the tank wasn't playing incorrectly - he was holding enmity and using his def cds properly - but that's not enough for some people. About halfway into the fight, the tank shirked to the BRD and stopped attacking the boss. He got attention and died faster than the AST could keep up. The BRD and AST had the same family name, so I assumed they were in a relationship in real life. After the BRD died, the AST stepped on all the bad stuff, didn't heal herself, and died while the tank and I finished the rest.

The tank left the party afterward. About 10 mins later, with no sign of a new tank queuing in, I bashed on the BRD for being a prick. It's bad enough that dps queues take at least 20+ mins. He said nothing, left the party, and the AST soon followed.

[SyzzleSpark]

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You need to think of Shirk as a DPS cooldown.

Almost all enmity generating abilities in single target in this game are a DPS loss. Tank stances, aggro combos, etc. Shirk costs nothing and generates more aggro all at once than all of them.

If you add up all the losses of all the power slashes, halones, and (arguably) butcher's blocks, plus any tank stance uptime, that you would have needed to generate the kind of insane lead that Shirk can provide, you realize that Shirk = all of that potency.

Its crazy not to take it into any content in which you and your co-tank care about your damage.

Moreover, the ability is just fun. It makes aggro management a mechanic that costs nothing other than a little extra raid awareness on your/your co-tank's part, and ultimately fosters better teamwork.