So this is PvP now?

[AriaFairchild]

The melee role here functions the same in other MMOs, if you facesmash into people you're probably going to die. Concept works the same on shatter, hit people that are on your side of the ice, don't venture over to the other side and start trying to rush healers. The same way a caster should be at max range to deal with their over-extended melee.

You mean to tell me that melees in other MMOs have:

• no defensive CDs...
• no stealth...
• no CC-immunities...
• no shadowstep...
• no reliable CCs...
• etc.

that enable them to reliably approach and survive the engagement for 5s? A group of melees engaging a group of range in this game is always stressful: nobody dares to go up first, because we are defenseless against them - you don't even need to facesmash to get killed - you get picked off at max range and die.

[Shut]

The melee role here functions the same in other MMOs, if you facesmash into people you're probably going to die. Concept works the same on shatter, hit people that are on your side of the ice, don't venture over to the other side and start trying to rush healers. The same way a caster should be at max range to deal with their over-extended melee.

that enable them to reliably approach and survive the engagement for 5s? A group of melees engaging a group of range in this game is always stressful: nobody dares to go up first, because we are defenseless against them - you don't even need to facesmash to get killed - you get picked off at max range and die.

So ok, it was 8v8, but a few days ago, I ran against a comp full range (at least I think 2 BLM that were coordinated), our group was full melee + me as healer. I'm far from being the greatest healer in PvP, but I actually knew who was going to take the damage 1st and got prepared in consequence. Guess what, that was litterally unhealable, our team got rekt in no time without having the slightest chance to get close.

I used to play melee a lot but I don't consider poking enemies with a 750 pot skills, then just standing on crystal waiting for a low health target to KS is something fun. Survivability is needed as melee for a good reason in those kind of modes.

[Lyndina]

Never been a great Fan of pvp, i rarely played more than 10 matches while leveling before Stormblood. Im rather new to the game, but yeah. If my opinion has any meaning,im with you. Its boring. You are limited to max 10 Skills...where my normal Scholar has a palette full of Thing. I Understand the balance issues...but no,not this way. Did 3 Matches in Stormblood,with different classes,but cant get a hang of it.

[Innes]

PVP was overly simplified. The only change worthwhile and effective to pvp was to consolidate combos. Aside from that, all the other skills should be available. Lv70 pve is not a 9button game. Once again, pvp was overly simplified; as an avid pvper and paying customer, I am quite unhappy with this change and will not be playing or paying.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

What really gets me is when someone would say "the old PvP had too many buttons"

. . . You mean those same ones you had in PvE content plus like 6 PvP skills, not all of which were always useful (depending on your job)?

Sure, there were some skills that just weren't all that useful in one or the other, and ironically most of the "useless" PvE skills were highly useful in PvP, but beyond that, it was the same kit you were used to at max level. The difference was how it was used. And unfortunately, where many cound play their job right in PvE, having to relearn it for PvP proved "too hard".

As a bitter thought, maybe PvP didn't need the complete overhaul if there was more effort on SE's part to properly explain how PvP actually worked.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm a whm... and nothing is more boring then PvP Whm

Stone is my only attack. I have no aoe spells anymore (holy/medica/aero iii are out).

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

I'd rather be a Sam hopelessly trying to chase brds around

Wait, what? Divine Benison is godly in PvP. 25% mitigation based on the target's max HP, on a 20s cooldown with the potential to reduce it to 10%? If you seriously believe that bad, you have no business playing WHM.

What really gets me is when someone would say "the old PvP had too many buttons"

. . . You mean those same ones you had in PvE content plus like 6 PvP skills, not all of which were always useful (depending on your job)?

Sure, there were some skills that just weren't all that useful in one or the other, and ironically most of the "useless" PvE skills were highly useful in PvP, but beyond that, it was the same kit you were used to at max level. The difference was how it was used. And unfortunately, where many cound play their job right in PvE, having to relearn it for PvP proved "too hard".

As a bitter thought, maybe PvP didn't need the complete overhaul if there was more effort on SE's part to properly explain how PvP actually worked.

I disagree. There is something to be said about less being more. It wasn't that all those abilities were necessarily difficult, they were simply cumbersome. I had macros to switch around abilities on my hotbars because I didn't have the space otherwise. I'm also someone who prefers most of their abilities on the mouse. I ran out of buttons on a mouse with over 24 of them. Did they scale it back too much? Maybe. But the sheer amount we once had was silly.

[Mirch]

Wait, what? Divine Benison is godly in PvP. 25% mitigation based on the target's max HP, on a 20s cooldown with the potential to reduce it to 10%? If you seriously believe that bad, you have no business playing WHM.

Divine benison is a shield, works differently from mitigation, protect is mitigation, divine benison cooldwon goes from 20secs to 10secs depending on number of lilies when used and yes it is really strong, as i wrote on other threads whm has all the things u would want from a support.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Divine benison is a shield, works differently from mitigation, protect is mitigation, divine benison cooldwon goes from 20secs to 10secs depending on number of lilies when used and yes it is really strong, as i wrote on other threads whm has all the things u would want from a support.

That's arguing semantics. Mitigation, in the context I used it, means to prevent incoming damage, which Divine Benison does. And I'm aware of the Lily requirement hence why I said potentially. Regardless, the point still stands. WHM has a fantastic arsenal. So...

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I disagree. There is something to be said about less being more. It wasn't that all those abilities were necessarily difficult, they were simply cumbersome. I had macros to switch around abilities on my hotbars because I didn't have the space otherwise. I'm also someone who prefers most of their abilities on the mouse. I ran out of buttons on a mouse with over 24 of them. Did they scale it back too much? Maybe. But the sheer amount we once had was silly.

So, how do you play PvE content then? Were you not using the same hotbars? None of your PvP skills were automatically added to your bar. Nothing was changed unless you set it up yourself. And personally speaking, on MCH (a job plenty of people claimed had too many buttons/was too confusing to play) I had many redundant skills on my second hotbar, so I actually could've saved enough space to maybe not even need the third hotbar I made just for PvP (again with even MORE redundancies).

Further backing up my point, I did some digging and found old screens that had my hotbars in them, I made a little graphic explaining my PvP one as well:

Hotbar 1, entirely unchanged from PvE


Hotbar 2, entirely unchanged from PvE

I can't think of a time I ever really used Grenado Shot, and Split, Slug and Clean were already on hotbar 1. Everything else was used regularly.

Hotbar 3, and this image speaks for itself:

I forgot to note on there the unmarked macro was to turn off Blood for Blood, a skill I didn't use too often anyways because it was a telegraph that you were gonna burst.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So, how do you play PvE content then? Were you not using the same hotbars? None of your PvP skills were automatically added to your bar. Nothing was changed unless you set it up yourself. And personally speaking, on MCH (a job plenty of people claimed had too many buttons/was too confusing to play) I had many redundant skills on my second hotbar, so I actually could've saved enough space to maybe not even need the third hotbar I made just for PvP (again with even MORE redundancies).

I was squeezing out the last bit of space on certain jobs. Dark Knight, for instance, had very little room. Same for Dragoon. There's a reason skill consolidation wasn't exclusively done to PvP after all. Regardless, I did say I managed with hotbar switch macros to drop redundant or useless abilities going from PvE to PvP. That didn't make it any less annoying. I have always thought the PvP only skills were silly when we retained everything we already had. They either should have made PvP only changes to existing abilities or separate the two entirely. They chose the later. I have some criticisms to the new system, but I prefer it to the alternative, especially because they can now make adjustments without worrying about PvE balance issues.