So this is PvP now?

[Clethoria]

I'm an avid PVPer and I like the button consolidation, though I think the actual problem here is with the skill / trait selection. If we had perhaps more choices and more IMPORTANT choices of skills that could actually influence a 'build' of sorts that made our characters and the way we played fun and unique it would be better. Having less skills is better, but having game defining decisions to make is what makes PVP fun. We don't have that in our rotations - such is the nature of the game created. But we could have these choices in our selected traits and skills.

As the most casual player you'll ever find, I adore it actually. But yes some of the skills I wish I could change. At the same time, I like how I can better understand my opponent. DRK vs DRK is a game of who can time their stuns the best.

[Shini-Inuzuka]

Lol i think glamour being end game just goes with out saying... we all like to look a specific way. But in regard to pvp ... I think most of us do not view this as balance... it feels like someone went into the doctors office for a common cold and came out with an arm amputated. Its a huge shift... the actual " problem", if there ever really was one, wasn't addressed lol. Maybe it was " we want those who play PvE to feel welcomed in the PvP arena..." but that distracts from what pvp has always been about which is an uncontrolled, competitive and unique realm... and this version of PvP is is soulless.
That was a great idea however it would be even more amazing to give us back the majority of our skills and give us the chance to configure our own consolidated button/ buttons OURSELVESfor both pvp and pve

Oh, I agree so much with that. I even registered at the forum just to say that.
Couldn't have said that better.

[Keramory]

I'm a whm... and nothing is more boring then PvP Whm

Stone is my only attack. I have no aoe spells anymore (holy/medica/aero iii are out).

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

I'd rather be a Sam hopelessly trying to chase brds around

[Kaisinel]

I'm a whm... and nothing is more boring then PvP Whm

Stone is my only attack. I have no aoe spells anymore (holy/medica/aero iii are out).

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

I'd rather be a Sam hopelessly trying to chase brds around

How can you think Divine Benison and Protect are useless at all?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm a whm... and nothing is more boring then PvP Whm

Stone is my only attack. I have no aoe spells anymore (holy/medica/aero iii are out).

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

I'd rather be a Sam hopelessly trying to chase brds around

Wait, what? Divine Benison is godly in PvP. 25% mitigation based on the target's max HP, on a 20s cooldown with the potential to reduce it to 10%? If you seriously believe that bad, you have no business playing WHM.

What really gets me is when someone would say "the old PvP had too many buttons"

. . . You mean those same ones you had in PvE content plus like 6 PvP skills, not all of which were always useful (depending on your job)?

Sure, there were some skills that just weren't all that useful in one or the other, and ironically most of the "useless" PvE skills were highly useful in PvP, but beyond that, it was the same kit you were used to at max level. The difference was how it was used. And unfortunately, where many cound play their job right in PvE, having to relearn it for PvP proved "too hard".

As a bitter thought, maybe PvP didn't need the complete overhaul if there was more effort on SE's part to properly explain how PvP actually worked.

I disagree. There is something to be said about less being more. It wasn't that all those abilities were necessarily difficult, they were simply cumbersome. I had macros to switch around abilities on my hotbars because I didn't have the space otherwise. I'm also someone who prefers most of their abilities on the mouse. I ran out of buttons on a mouse with over 24 of them. Did they scale it back too much? Maybe. But the sheer amount we once had was silly.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I disagree. There is something to be said about less being more. It wasn't that all those abilities were necessarily difficult, they were simply cumbersome. I had macros to switch around abilities on my hotbars because I didn't have the space otherwise. I'm also someone who prefers most of their abilities on the mouse. I ran out of buttons on a mouse with over 24 of them. Did they scale it back too much? Maybe. But the sheer amount we once had was silly.

So, how do you play PvE content then? Were you not using the same hotbars? None of your PvP skills were automatically added to your bar. Nothing was changed unless you set it up yourself. And personally speaking, on MCH (a job plenty of people claimed had too many buttons/was too confusing to play) I had many redundant skills on my second hotbar, so I actually could've saved enough space to maybe not even need the third hotbar I made just for PvP (again with even MORE redundancies).

Further backing up my point, I did some digging and found old screens that had my hotbars in them, I made a little graphic explaining my PvP one as well:

Hotbar 1, entirely unchanged from PvE


Hotbar 2, entirely unchanged from PvE

I can't think of a time I ever really used Grenado Shot, and Split, Slug and Clean were already on hotbar 1. Everything else was used regularly.

Hotbar 3, and this image speaks for itself:

I forgot to note on there the unmarked macro was to turn off Blood for Blood, a skill I didn't use too often anyways because it was a telegraph that you were gonna burst.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So, how do you play PvE content then? Were you not using the same hotbars? None of your PvP skills were automatically added to your bar. Nothing was changed unless you set it up yourself. And personally speaking, on MCH (a job plenty of people claimed had too many buttons/was too confusing to play) I had many redundant skills on my second hotbar, so I actually could've saved enough space to maybe not even need the third hotbar I made just for PvP (again with even MORE redundancies).

I was squeezing out the last bit of space on certain jobs. Dark Knight, for instance, had very little room. Same for Dragoon. There's a reason skill consolidation wasn't exclusively done to PvP after all. Regardless, I did say I managed with hotbar switch macros to drop redundant or useless abilities going from PvE to PvP. That didn't make it any less annoying. I have always thought the PvP only skills were silly when we retained everything we already had. They either should have made PvP only changes to existing abilities or separate the two entirely. They chose the later. I have some criticisms to the new system, but I prefer it to the alternative, especially because they can now make adjustments without worrying about PvE balance issues.

[Mirch]

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

Whm toolkit is actually the best one out of the 3 healers at the current state, nearly useless skills not at all, stonekin mitigates and divine benison is a shield, both have no mp cost and a decent whm use these 2 skills wisely, theyre not panic buttons.

[AriaFairchild]

Maybe just me being salty...but until they change how melees can reliably build resources without being gunned down to death, this game's pvp is at best a side distraction. Range jobs in 4.0 has no cast time, no distance penalty, etc, while melees (esp. NIN) have a bunch of skills locked behind resources that can only be built when engaged in melee. Idk, give them a way to build chakra/ninki/etc on the spot at a cost of tp/mp.

[BloodRubyXII]

@Keramory, you're playing one of the best healing jobs in the game right now, the only reason the other two healers exist is because SCH has broil :P

SNIP.

IDK about Nin, but I haven't had problems getting resources as SAM or regenning TP (don't forget to trait it if this is an issue for you or you don't have an AST in your team to feed you spires); if you tunnel vision then you're probably going to get smoked. 8s is a mess, you have maybe a few seconds to burst something then you need to find a healer to hug. Better off just peeling or hitting over-extended melee.