A tank's concern

[KalinOrthos]

This is a genuine question, not intended to call anyone out. But the past few dungeon queues as a paladin, I've had healers, mostly AST/WHM, who pretty much exclusively focus on DPS, and when healing is needed, they use Helios/Medica to heal up, or not even that. Now, I can usually keep myself up with Clemency to supplement Regens or shields, but with the past few runs, we've wiped because I don't get any heals incoming because I see our healer spamming Malefic or Stone. Hell, there are times when I have to use Clemency to heal up other party members just to keep them up through regular boss mechanics.

Is this a problem that I am personally at fault with, or were these just some bad healers who don't know how to do their job? I am most certainly not opposed to healers dealing damage, it's why I do smaller pulls, so that I don't take as much damage and healers can DPS without worry about me going down in a few crits, but when they focus exclusively on DPSing, it becomes a problem.

[Tint]

healers do more damage than tanks, so the dps meta says the paladin should focus on healing.

[KalinOrthos]

Alright, thank you. I know leveling gear is a little unoptimized, and a lot of the time I feel like I am taking slightly more damage than I should (I've been spoiled on PotD, so there's that), but I do my best not only to keep myself up and rotate cooldowns, but also focus on keeping my party up as much as possible, throwing out Clemency as needed to get us through the dungeons. But having three dungeons in a row where this wasn't enough, it felt like I was doing something wrong.

[Reiryuu]

Oh good, so can I ask you this question: Like every tank I get matched with on whm in the DF pulls 3-4 groups of mobs at once and uses no cooldowns, doesn't even look at the dps composition and thus requires me to spam every heal I have just to keep him alive. Are these tanks just bad, because, you know, I'd at least like to do something other than spam heals and not have virtually all the burden of keeping the party alive fall on me because the tank is feeling macho. And I have no problem with 2 packs with tanks who don't drop like a wet paper doll in a tornado, as long as I have some breathing room to have a little fun too. That's all I ask, thanks.

And yes, I am salty about this. Probably too much so. I'm not directing it at you, personally, just venting some steam.

[Claire_Pendragon]

While I havent run into this myself, I can say that when Im healing, or any role, I tend to go into muscle memory mode, after having played a job long enough, and when SB hit, I would "check" certain UI elements at certain intervals, depending on how often i had to before.

In short, I looked at HP every 4th GCD in 4man dungeons, as a Healer in 3.x.
But now, even if I stare at HP, a persons HP can go from full to less than 10% right after my GCD started, leaving me with only oGCDs as a means to respond. (on occasion, the enemy then lands a critical hit, and they die anyways)

But every once in awhile, my mind would wander, and I get back into 3 stones, and a cure, mentality, and next thing I know, after 1 stone, the tanks dead.

If the tank has the gear from the dungeon, or better, and uses CDs, I can throw in a stone every 2-5 GCDs, but most dont, and its quite different from what im used to, definitely will take me while to put this into muscle memory, so when I start to auto-pilot Im naturally looking at HP bars every GCD in 4man dungeons. (I honestly havent run into a tank who uses CDs properly, they either try to stack them all at the start, all in the mid, all at the end, or just rampart at the start, and thats it, and if its on CD, they use nothing, not even anticipation. Sometimes an undergeared tank will mass pull, and only use convalescence, and every GCD they go from full hp to 10%. Yeah I may heal them back to full each GCD, but it only takes a crit or a few direct hits, and they die, which happens enough to be annoyed by it.)

[KalinOrthos]

.

I always felt that, as a tank, you really need to keep an eye on your party. Those types of tanks that hit the go button before even realizing their healer might be a bit low on gear or the DPS AoE damage might be a bit low really piss me off, because they focus on HURDURR GOTTA GO FAST. Your salt is definitely warranted, and it's baffling to watch happen as a DPS. Trust me when I say this, I try to keep an eye on my party before I start pulling big. If I know they, and I, can handle it, then we go, but I tend to pull on the slower side, never really going more than two small packs (think the second group and the big patrol add right behind it in Bardam's Mettle).

[GeekMatt]

Are you basing this on the cast times you see next to the healers names?

Using heals with cast-times is pretty much the last step in the process of keeping you alive for me, since the instant/castless ones are generally free. On both WHM and AST it's not unusual to wait for the tank to get low, since benediction (WHM) will totally refill your HP in an instant and now has a much lower CD time, so it sees more use than before but is most practical when your HP is lower, and Essential Dignity (AST) is more potent if you have less HP.

If your HP isn't getting low enough because you're using Clemency, you'll see less heals incoming.

[KalinOrthos]

Are you basing this on the cast times you see next to the healers names?

...

If your HP isn't getting low enough because your using Clemency, you'll see less heals incoming.

I don't want to sound catty, but is below 30% low enough to start using Clemency? Because that's the point I start spamming it. And I have a few healers leveled to 60, I know there are a few insta-cast spells, especially with things like Siwftcast and Lightspeed. I'm not seeing anything like that though, all I'm seeing is healthbars going down and down, never up until the healer started casting Medica/Helios.

[ManuelBravo]

This is a genuine question, not intended to call anyone out.

Is this a problem that I am personally at fault with, or were these just some bad healers who don't know how to do their job? I am most certainly not opposed to healers dealing damage, it's why I do smaller pulls, so that I don't take as much damage and healers can DPS without worry about me going down in a few crits, but when they focus exclusively on DPSing, it becomes a problem.

It's not your fault. healers trying to be helpful and still haven't properly adjusted. If you see them doing that and wipe. Please give them a reminder, "guys while I do appreciate the dps, please keep me alive. " If they take it as an offense vote kick them.

[KalinOrthos]

It's not your fault. healers trying to be helpful and still haven't properly adjusted. If you see them doing that and wipe. Please give them a reminder, "guys while I do appreciate the dps, please keep me alive. " If they take it as an offense vote kick them.

Which is what I did to the first guy. Asked him to keep me up, he told me to stop being bad and stop complaining. Which felt weird because I've gotten nothing but praise from my previous groups about how I didn't seem to take any damage at all. My hang up is, because it was three in a row, if it was something I was doing wrong, and it's comforting to know I seem to be okay.