A tank's concern

[KalinOrthos]

This is a genuine question, not intended to call anyone out. But the past few dungeon queues as a paladin, I've had healers, mostly AST/WHM, who pretty much exclusively focus on DPS, and when healing is needed, they use Helios/Medica to heal up, or not even that. Now, I can usually keep myself up with Clemency to supplement Regens or shields, but with the past few runs, we've wiped because I don't get any heals incoming because I see our healer spamming Malefic or Stone. Hell, there are times when I have to use Clemency to heal up other party members just to keep them up through regular boss mechanics.

Is this a problem that I am personally at fault with, or were these just some bad healers who don't know how to do their job? I am most certainly not opposed to healers dealing damage, it's why I do smaller pulls, so that I don't take as much damage and healers can DPS without worry about me going down in a few crits, but when they focus exclusively on DPSing, it becomes a problem.

[Tint]

healers do more damage than tanks, so the dps meta says the paladin should focus on healing.

[Feidam]

healers do more damage than tanks, so the dps meta says the paladin should focus on healing.

Healers and tanks both need to get over the idea of they NEED to dps. Throw dps as able but only as a secondary option. White mage with holy is an exception as that stun is good mitigation. Too many healers and tanks are only there to pew pew.

[KalinOrthos]

Healers and tanks both need to get over the idea of they NEED to dps. Throw dps as able but only as a secondary option. White mate with holy is an exception as that stun is good mitigation. Too many healers and tanks are only there to pew pew.

but the meta tho

[Feidam]

but the meta tho

I know right. We, my normal group, sat down last night and actually took a look at how hard the new mobs are hitting. The small trash auto attack for 1k non crit and the large trash hit from 3 to 5k. Start getting Crits and direct hits and boom tank drops like a rock. The dungeons are not the same as they were at endgame HW. At least not yet. The my deeps meta that is lingering is causing more harm than good in the average duty queue.

[KalinOrthos]

I know right. We, my normal group, sat down last night and actually took a look at how hard the new mobs are hitting. The small trash auto attack for 1k non crit and the large trash hit from 3 to 5k. Start getting Crits and direct hits and boom tank drops like a rock. The dungeons are not the same as they were at endgame HW. At least not yet. The my deeps meta that is lingering is causing more harm than good in the average duty queue.

Man, I roll my eyes so hard at anyone who unironically refers to the meta for what they should be going for. I swear, a lot of the people who seriously use it as a standard to go by use it as some sort of holy book requiring strict adherence. That's not to say that it doesn't have its uses, but when we get too many people saying "Well, it's meta to do this", we get to the garbage we have now.

[KalinOrthos]

Alright, thank you. I know leveling gear is a little unoptimized, and a lot of the time I feel like I am taking slightly more damage than I should (I've been spoiled on PotD, so there's that), but I do my best not only to keep myself up and rotate cooldowns, but also focus on keeping my party up as much as possible, throwing out Clemency as needed to get us through the dungeons. But having three dungeons in a row where this wasn't enough, it felt like I was doing something wrong.

[Reiryuu]

Oh good, so can I ask you this question: Like every tank I get matched with on whm in the DF pulls 3-4 groups of mobs at once and uses no cooldowns, doesn't even look at the dps composition and thus requires me to spam every heal I have just to keep him alive. Are these tanks just bad, because, you know, I'd at least like to do something other than spam heals and not have virtually all the burden of keeping the party alive fall on me because the tank is feeling macho. And I have no problem with 2 packs with tanks who don't drop like a wet paper doll in a tornado, as long as I have some breathing room to have a little fun too. That's all I ask, thanks.

And yes, I am salty about this. Probably too much so. I'm not directing it at you, personally, just venting some steam.

[KalinOrthos]

.

I always felt that, as a tank, you really need to keep an eye on your party. Those types of tanks that hit the go button before even realizing their healer might be a bit low on gear or the DPS AoE damage might be a bit low really piss me off, because they focus on HURDURR GOTTA GO FAST. Your salt is definitely warranted, and it's baffling to watch happen as a DPS. Trust me when I say this, I try to keep an eye on my party before I start pulling big. If I know they, and I, can handle it, then we go, but I tend to pull on the slower side, never really going more than two small packs (think the second group and the big patrol add right behind it in Bardam's Mettle).

[Spartan926]

Oh good, so can I ask you this question: Like every tank I get matched with on whm in the DF pulls 3-4 groups of mobs at once and uses no cooldowns, doesn't even look at the dps composition and thus requires me to spam every heal I have just to keep him alive. Are these tanks just bad, because, you know, I'd at least like to do something other than spam heals and not have virtually all the burden of keeping the party alive fall on me because the tank is feeling macho. And I have no problem with 2 packs with tanks who don't drop like a wet paper doll in a tornado, as long as I have some breathing room to have a little fun too. That's all I ask, thanks.

And yes, I am salty about this. Probably too much so. I'm not directing it at you, personally, just venting some steam.

I would like to address this from the tanking perspective. First off, I would ask in what dungeons does this happen? I've seen it myself when groups will ask me to do big pulls in the 50/60 roulettes. (Can't speak for 70 yet.) I would say the tank IS bad if you request they not do the massive pulls and/or the party comp isn't right for AOE things. As a tank I would like to know what would you prefer we do in those situations and under what circumstances a massive pull would be considered a good idea?

For example: If we have two BLM's or two RDM, or a mix of both. Would that be a good party to pull a mass with because of the potential AOE Damage? Or would it still be best to stick with only a few?