Some interesting numbers on 4.0 BLM

**RyeMinx** · 07-13-2017 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Oniji

I haven't played BLM since 3.x, but just want to give some feedback. Comparing "DPS" or pps between 3.x and 4.x is moot. It can be tempting and deceiving to compare them directly in isolation. SE will tweak potency numbers to balance the current state of the jobs relative to one another, not themselves into the past. So saying that 4.x has X pps more/less than 3.x can be deceiving without looking it within the context relative to the other jobs during their respective patches. That said, there is merit in stating that playing a BLM in 4.x is harder at the baseline than in 3.x.

Thanks for the post, looking forward to getting my hands on BLM in 4.x and seeing how it feels.

I think you misunderstood the post. We aren't compared BLM PPS in 3.x to BLM PPS in 4.0. We are comparing the rotations we used in 3.x (F4-F4-F1-F4-F4) to the rotations provided in 4.0 (F4-F4-F4-F1-F4-F4-F4). And based on evidence, as long as SpS doesn't get too high, the 3.x rotation is a higher pps currently.

**Karja** · 07-13-2017 08:29 AM

People aren't comparing numbers from 3.x to 4.x though, people compare the rotation we used in 3.x to the rotation everyone assumes SE had in mind when they designed 4.x.
The whole debate is about using or not using B4 to gain umbral hearts.

**Kabooa** · 07-13-2017 01:22 PM

I will have 2000ish Spellspeed once I get my Omega pants. This should bump me to a 10% casting speed bonus or a 2.25 GCD. However, as someone noted, you'll likely need closer to a 2.1/2.0 GCD to minimize the Umbral ice phase in the B4 rotations. Much of the PPS gain is the fact that you only spend 1 tick in Ice instead of 3-4. (B3 -> Foul (1tick) -> Thunder (1tick) -> B4 (1tick) -> F3)

However it seems worth noting that secondary stat gains per 10 ilvl seem far less drastic in SB than they have in HW. (+2/+3 on accessories when it was closer to +4/+5). It may be the secondary jumps are more drastic on tiers rather than on 'upgrades', but we'll know for certain when Savage items are dropped.

**Exiled_Tonberry** · 07-13-2017 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Karja

I would just wait and see what the Patch Notes look like. Maybe SE changes a few things like Astral Fire duration which could change things.

Oh shush up with the wait and see tactic. We waited and saw since before preliminary patch notes. Let us talk now!

**EllieShadeflare** · 07-13-2017 01:37 PM

All I can hope is that SE sees all the complaints about the "intended" 4.x rotation and fix it like they did Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel back in 3.0. Otherwise... Well, they broke the job.

Though, I think that if they at least made it so that when players cast Thundercloud'd Thunder/Thunder III, it removes the recast time, making it a pseudo oGCD.

**Galvuu** · 07-13-2017 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

All I can hope is that SE sees all the complaints about the "intended" 4.x rotation and fix it like they did Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel back in 3.0. Otherwise... Well, they broke the job.

Though, I think that if they at least made it so that when players cast Thundercloud'd Thunder/Thunder III, it removes the recast time, making it a pseudo oGCD.

This scares me a lot.
I'd rather if BLM was balanced around the overall rotation/AF cycles (adjust Fire IV/Blizzrd IV/Foul potencies, and review Umbral Hearts).
Thundercloud being ogcd would be insanely broken. Having access to a 700 potency ogcd seems insane to me. Not sure I'd approve of that change :/

**soslinky** · 07-13-2017 11:01 PM

Has anyone experimented on B4 being feasible at all after reading this thread? Mind sharing your experiences so far?

I've been experimenting on it a lot on Susano trying to look for gaps in mechanics where I could squeeze 6 F4s but it usually blows up in my face. My best run so far had me cast a measly total of 5 B4s. I managed to perfectly time my B4 just as each purple marker phase was about to end and pulling off 6 F4s all throughout the succeeding Unheki phase. IIRC one of those B4s was a mistake and I ended up missing a cast of F4.

I gotta tell you guys though, while I 100% agree that SE should do something about our 4.0 rotation, the whole effort of trying to optimize this fight to include as much 4.0 AF rotations as I can was the most fun I've had so far. I just hope this isn't me subconsciously conceding to this mess of a kit. :X

**Inuakurei** · 07-13-2017 11:56 PM

Hello friends. I leveled BLM back in 2.0 but left it at lv50 for 3.0. Now in 4.0 I'm leveling it again and just got lv60 a few days ago.

So I have a question because I'm terrible and getting used to all this again.

I've been following (as close as I can) what I guess is the standard rotation of:
3xF4>F>3xF4>B3

and I see the logic there, but the timing is tight to maintain like the op mentions. So I wanted to ask you all who are much better at figuring this stuff out than I am, how much worse is this rotation:
3xF4>B3>F3>3xF4>B3

Pretty much just replacing the single F1 for a B3>F3 combo. It is about 1s slower, but I think the damage of B3+F3 is about the same as F1 and it makes keeping enochain up much easier because of the faster cast time on B3 vs F1.

I know it IS a dps loss, but by how much? Is it minimal enough to consider? Or is it a huge loss and not worth doing?

Although I'd still use 3xF4>F>3xF4>B3 with sharpcast though as that gives a free F3.

**Galvuu** · 07-14-2017 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Inuakurei

snip

It's a dps loss, for many reasons.

First, something most people don't understand about how AF III and UI III interact with spells of the opposing element.
When you're in AF III and cast B3 (or UI III and cast F3), the channelling of the spell (the cast) is shortened by 50%. That means it takes 1.75 seconds.
But, on your tooltip, there's something called "recast time". That time- which is one gcd for us- is the time you must wait until you can cast another spell. That's 2.5 seconds for F3 and B3.
So even though the cast only lasts 1.75 seconds, you have to sit there for the whole gcd duration before you can cast anything again. That means that B3>F3 transition lasts 5 seconds.

You then have two other issues to deal with:
First, you forego T3. That's less procs (free pps) and also less movement options.
Second, if you get a slow mana tick on UI, you have to wait around doing nothing for 1.5 seconds on average. Or you cast a filler spell, which would be T3, this rectifying the previous issue.
Since it's extremely hard to guess a mana tick in a vacuum (aka: without seeing the previous tick, if you see one you can guestimate the next relatively accurately), you pretty much always have to cast T3/Foul to get around the mana tick issue.

The pps for your proposed rotation, btw, would be 132 (without a filler spell), which is ~13pps lower than the 3.X rotation.
With a filler spell (to get around the mana tick thing), you'd get around 136pps.
This is a 10% dps loss VS the HW rotation without a Firestarter proc.
On average, you're doing 12% less damage than a player using the 3.X rotation with a 4.0 opener would do (although it's not as bad as I thought it would be).
Whether that's acceptable or not is up to you x)

**Inuakurei** · 07-14-2017 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Galvuu

snip

Ahh you're completely right, I didn't think about the gcd at all. I guess it would be alright during a movement mechanic or something but other than that I'll try to avoid it. Thanks

Thread: Some interesting numbers on 4.0 BLM

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