SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[magnanimousCynic]

They used the time instead of spamming Raubahn Ex to get mats for future crafts.

How could they get materials for future crafts if they couldn't progress past the first few quests in SB MSQ?

Or am I reading this wrong?

[QT_Melon]

How could they get materials for future crafts if they couldn't progress past the first few quests in SB MSQ?

Or am I reading this wrong?

I saw a lot of people hit gathering and crafting to 70 because of collectibles. Since Gagana leather is a leve and early craft, many people instead of spamming Rauhban grabbed a ton of skins and the Alumen during that time and ground out leatherworker. Since you couldn't access the new leves, they simply accumulated and were able to spam a low level leve when it finally became available to get to 70 for LTW.

Many of the early mats they could gather turned out to be a benefit once they could reach Kugane and spam the leve. You can level up CRP for example with just "Beech Please" if you had enough leves.

A lot of 61 and higher collectibles never ask for mats higher than that level to make them. So that couldn't pass Raubahn just hung around the Reach and gathered. I did the same after getting frustrated during early access and grabbed the new collectibles for turn in: the branches and triphane. It was pretty good stuff, even if the stretch got longer because we couldn't get to new zones.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Yhd-yEa7dPj2WY9X3t02w0P3WeDydVRCWWzQiBoifuA/htmlview?sle=true#

Here you can see the list of leves and some collectibles. You don't get leves where crafting items are higher than the level you're crafting and will generally be accessible anywhere. Same with collectibles. So like an X belt of Striking that is level 61 won't have a 67 ingredient in it.

[AdamZ]

I get that LTW are costly to level (WVR is not, it has more then enough items with inputs from land jobs only, and ALC you can do Persimmon Tannin at 66, or the teas which one require one WAR drop). That is why I "slow" level it, with the focus on GC turns, then only leves much later.

Personally, I think the high cost of WAR drops is a good thing. It is one of the few times you have largest Gil movement going from Crafters to WAR players only, and not just the normal slow burn of Crafters to Gathers. With Crafters just building stacks.

Personal experience is that it got me into Gathering and Crafting. At the lunch of HW my WAR retainer made me the few millions to gear up my miner for the first time, which lead me to level BTN, which lead to income to level crafters, etc.

At the end of the day, Gil moving through the economy is a good thing, without it happening who would buy your items at a 500% mark up?

(Also cost to make anything that is not a turn-in, be in GC, leves, or script, is pretty pointless, as the cost will just be passed on to the end consumer)

[Fyce]

snip

I'm not sure if you miss the point on purpose because you can't answer to it or if you genuinely don't understand what I'm saying.

I'll try one last time.

It's not about how easy or hard it is. It's about how does it compare to the other classes, and how theses classes can have their material supplied, and at what rate. And also how much material is needed for the recipes.
Currently, LTW falls behind in every category. Getting materials is slower, it's limited per people farming, the HQ rate is way lower, and the quantity needed doesn't change much from other classes.

That's all I'm saying. I don't care how easy or hard it is. But I do care about imbalance between classes.

[grumpy]

i don't think there is an issue with this it's a matter of what is your priority to save gil and lvl up you farm these it takes time or you can just buy them off the mb and pay for someone's time ppl that farm or gather these also lose time while you do other things like lvl up help friend and so on its really up to you what your goals are i have farmed up to 3 stacks of these skins while i did lvl up so some ppl want to save time while others want to save gil you choose but key rule TIME IS MONEY or GIL in this case

[QT_Melon]

I'm not sure if you miss the point on purpose because you can't answer to it or if you genuinely don't understand what I'm saying.

I'll try one last time.

It's not about how easy or hard it is. It's about how does it compare to the other classes, and how theses classes can have their material supplied, and at what rate. And also how much material is needed for the recipes.
Currently, LTW falls behind in every category. Getting materials is slower, it's limited per people farming, the HQ rate is way lower, and the quantity needed doesn't change much from other classes.

That's all I'm saying. I don't care how easy or hard it is. But I do care about imbalance between classes.

Except it isn't imbalanced? It's also based on which class tends to garner more profit.

Clothes are needed most because more players glamour, or need gear to level up, vs people needing infusions or food. It's not that food or infusions aren't useful, but only a percentage of the population is going to need it. This means the obvious choice would mean leveling up that LTW or weaver because of the potential money, but it shouldn't be a faceroll to level up. The difficulty is just right.

They are fine where they are at. As I said the only concern was the mane and hair, but even that wasn't terrible.

The mats aren't exceptionally difficult.

You want to do leves alone, you're looking at 48-49 leves to get to 70 Less than other leves of other classes (some are averaging 50-52) if you do the cheap route. Which is spamming the leves with the Tiger Skin once you are able to reach it. Crafting the skins into the leather nets you even more XP if you're working to make them HQ, ON TOP OF using Commercial Engineering manuals since you can get those cheap with red scrips. Speaking of Red scrips...

You got collectibles too which a lot aren't asking for the stupid dissolvents to be added to the gear recipe now.

So..

Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...view?sle=true#

Tiger Leather takes 3 skins which are an easy farm from Azim Steppes if you kill Baras, and also rather easy if you kill the Yanxia tigers sitting at the front entrance that leads you to the Ruby Sea. I advise against Rainbow Tigers....

The Alumen is also easy, in fact the market has crashed on my server because most people were leveling up during Raubahn EX that there's a rather huge glut of them (and they're really a 60 gather).

Gagana Belt of Scouting to level 62 = 63 Gagana skins, and 21 Titanium Nuggets (you can buy the nuggets with the Gnath beast Tribe).
So doing the Tiger Leather Leves, = 306 skins, and 102 Alumens. How unfair....????

Seems LTW has it made honestly if you're doing the grind to 70. If you're doing it a weird way and trying to make everything in your log, then maybe there's a problem...?

[grumpy]

Tiger Leather takes 3 skins which are an easy farm from Azim Steppes if you kill Baras, and also rather easy if you kill the Yanxia tigers sitting at the front entrance that leads you to the Ruby Sea. I advise against Rainbow Tigers....

The Alumen is also easy, in fact the market has crashed on my server because most people were leveling up during Raubahn EX that there's a rather huge glut of them (and they're really a 60 gather).

Seems LTW has it made honestly if you're doing the grind to 70. If you're doing it a weird way and trying to make everything in your log, then maybe there's a problem...?[/QUOTE]

Exactly folks are just lazy to farm these its just so simple that is what i did farm every single skin with no issue ppl just don't want to use up the time they have to do this so solution is pay up for it or farm it .

[Fyce]

Except it isn't imbalanced?

So you're basically saying that it takes the same amount of time to gather enough materials to make leather and, say, 4 logs for a lumber?
Or that 3 Gagana skins cost the same as 4 Beech Lumber?
Or that gathering 3 skins is as difficult as getting 4 lumbers?
Or that someone who needs some HQ mats to make some HQ products will get the same amount of HQ skins that a botanist would get HQ lumber?
Or that the availability of the gathering spot is equal and that gathering skins is like gathering rocks or plants in the way that it's not impacted by the number of people farming?

(I took CRP as an example because it's the most obvious, but this applies to a lot of other classes.)

Sorry, but I can't argue any further. That's the third time you either completly missed my point or ignored my arguments, even if they are completly valid facts (see all of the above showing that yes, a lot of stuff regarding gathering monster's materials is imbalanced compared to BTN and MIN can do for other crafter classes). You haven't answered to any of these and keep saying "It's easy! It's easy!" even if that's absolutly not the point.

At least, you were right regarding one thing: I'm wasting my time here.

[grumpy]

well sry if you cant hq nq mats you might have to look in to your crafter rotation and possibly gear and melds i hit hq and all nq skins i even sold some on the mb and made gil even on carpenter hq nq logs and and well obviously you'r battle class has no ability to increase the amount of hq skins you get that is just silly cant compare that since miner and botanist have ability to get you hq or 3 times the amount of logs in 1 hit your hq leather is based of your skill as a crafter to hq those mats................

[Lulza]

You may not like it, but it's 100% intentional to throttle some base mats but make an infinite supply of intermediate mats at a fixed npc price through desynth.

I am actually quite impressed at how well SE manages the economy in general.