Scholar Fixes

[amihavingfunyet]

You mean besides the fact that they took a baseball bat to both Aldoquiem, the Fairy, and Scholar's MP regeneration? Like, all the things that made Scholar amazing in HW...

Can't argue that Adlo has gotten a very significant increase in MP cost, but maybe you should take the hint that it's not meant to be a spamable skill.
Spamming Adlo was already a noob trap in ARR/HW and left you OOM quick.

Lucid Dreaming restores roughly 1k MP per tick (960 if I'm not mistaken) * 7 ticks = ~7k MP every 2 minutes, or 3.5k MP per minute. Now this is all for current values, so this is going to get worse as we get more gear. You have roughly 18k MP as SCH. So every minute you restore 1.8k (Aetherflow) + 3.5k (Lucid Dreaming) = 5.3k MP per minutes as opposed to 3.6k MP per minutes if you had old Aetherflow and no Lucid Dreaming. So you MP regeneration actually got buffed, unless you refuse to take LD, but that's only on you.
And I know it's not part of SCH's kit and it helps the other healers just as well, but Mana Shift and Refresh are a thing, and they are strong. So if you really are hurting that much for MP you might want to consider taking a support role into your progression (which you very likely already do anyway).

The Fairy nerf was roughly 17% on Embrace and Fey Illumination getting reduced from 20% to 10% (which was a bigger help for your co-healer anyway). That's by no means nerfed to the ground.

And only these 3 things made SCH amazing? It's whole kit was and still is amazing, but it's less on auto pilot.

I'll tell you a secret about Sacred Soil, it's pointless unless people are in danger of being 1 shotted

Now I really am convinced you never did any serious raid content. Sacred Soil has seen so many uses. J-Waves, Holy Bleed, Whirlwind, and many other AoEs which you can make so much easier to heal through would like to have a word with you.
Also, not everyone will always be topped for every mechanic.

does Whm have amazing AoE healing because Scholar will be using their stacks on Indom instead of Sacred Soil 99% of the time....oh yeah.

I'm not sure where you are getting at here? But SCH has the ability to reduce incoming damage so the other healer can heal up. It's not a one man show (unless you are solo healing).

Does Whm have healing that requires 0 MP and 0 GCDs? Benediction, Tetra, Assize, Assylum, ect...

You mean those skills that are all on a fairly long CD and have a combined lower HPS than the fairy? Besides the point that these are not directly comparable as the fairy and WHM's oGCD heals have different uses.

Let's ask a better question? Does Scholar have a Cure II? Can Scholar cast that Cure II for free every so often? Can Scholar cast a free Stoneskin after that Cure II. Oh right, Scholars are stuck spamming Physic...

Does SCH need a Cure 2? Or is one healer "spamming" their stronger heal enough?
I don't really like the comparison but if you account for Physick + Embrace (roughly 170 real potency) you end up with a 570 potency heal. I know the fairy has a 3 second GCD. But it's pretty clear that WHM and SCH have different approaches to heal people. And as chance would have it, the synergize really well.

The impression I get from a lot of "SCH" is that if their job is not the 100% mandatory healer for progression (and even then, see HW launch), they think their job is underpowered.

[Supersun]

The impression I get from a lot of "SCH" is that if their job is not the 100% mandatory healer for progression (and even then, see HW launch), they think their job is underpowered.

I actually just found a pretty good metric to pretty much prove my point that Scholar is in fact lacking on healing.

The problem with looking at FFLogs to find the best healers is that the primary way FFLogs filters the "best" clears is that they sort by the length of the fight. Basically, the healers that appear on the teams that are highest up aren't the healer that heal the best, but kill the fastest. I don't think there's any dispute that Ast + Chain Stratagem will be a better comp than anything with White Mage at killing things fast.

But you can also sort to see the best healers and that list sorts by HPS, heals per second. Wanna take a bet what THAT list looks like? I'll give you a hint, there's not a single scholar on the list and it displays the top 100 classes. They are all Whms and Asts.

The best Whm had a HPS of nearly 6,500. The top Scholar on the other hand had an HPS of 4,250. Basically, White Mages and Asts are out HPSing Scholars by more than 50%

Now is this the best measure. Not really, I mean regens naturally out HPS shields, but still, by more than 50%? White Mages are Scholars are hard to compare because they really don't compete for the same spot, but given that White Mages are able to compete with Ast in regards to HPS it shows that in terms of healing that White Mage and Ast are relatively balanced (Though that may be an issue in itself since White Mage + Balance is pretty much going to beat White Mage 99% of the time in raid invites).

If Scholar didn't have Chain Stratagem I'm pretty sure all the comps would favor Whm/Ast instead. One of the classes needs to be Ast and Whm as mentioned before already heals as well as Ast, but does Sch heal as well as Ast atm. I really don't think so, the fairy isn't going to be enough to make up just the sheer potency and MP differences with their spells, and Asts shields are pretty much undebatably better though it's a bit harder to compare those 2 since you can't exactly filter by Noct Ast on FFlogs.

[Deox]

The best Whm had a HPS of nearly 6,500. The top Scholar on the other hand had an HPS of 4,250. Basically, White Mages and Asts are out HPSing Scholars by more than 50%

If Scholar didn't have Chain Stratagem I'm pretty sure all the comps would favor Whm/Ast instead. One of the classes needs to be Ast and Whm as mentioned before already heals as well as Ast, but does Sch heal as well as Ast atm. I really don't think so, the fairy isn't going to be enough to make up just the sheer potency and MP differences with their spells, and Asts shields are pretty much undebatably better though it's a bit harder to compare those 2 since you can't exactly filter by Noct Ast on FFlogs.

SCH is always going to be the secondary healer, at that point it's not about HPS pointless overhealing is pointless overhealing. As long as SCH has the answers to respond to moments the main healer can't handle something on their own, the SCH will always be Viable. Any SCH worth a gain of salt in 8 man content abosultely does not cast a single heal unless required. Occasional indoms, lustrates, adlo for tank busters, occasional real healing when party is taking split high dps and micro managing the fairy's abilities to assist the main healer.

The non savage content is easy enough as it is to all be done with 1 sch alone or 2 even and that is literally the worst healer combo possible due to incompatibility. The class needs quality of life fixes to make them feel a bit less clunky overall they don't need some absurd healing power boost.

I remember that time i wanted to cast a regen on two people as an SCH. Eos healed one and said "how can i heal both? Maybe summon two of me? Oh you can't. Bummer. But I'm free so there's that. Wait im a regen now? People keep saying I'm the gap to the potency between phyick and cure II. How can i be a regen too?? Oh right cuz I'm free so obviously im the greatest gift on the wardens green earth. My bad. "

What is Whispering Dawn?

[Xhareem]

SCH is always going to be the secondary healer, at that point it's not about HPS pointless overhealing is pointless overhealing. As long as SCH has the answers to respond to moments the main healer can't handle something on their own, the SCH will always be Viable. Any SCH worth a gain of salt in 8 man content abosultely does not cast a single heal unless required. Occasional indoms, lustrates, adlo for tank busters, occasional real healing when party is taking split high dps and micro managing the fairy's abilities to assist the main healer.

Didn't know SE has set a 4th role: secondary healer. Thanks for inform us. So, according to your reasoning, the very moment an encounter can be healed with a primary healer?(not SCH), SCH are totally out of the scene, since SCH can't compare to a real damage dealer. How sad for us SCHs...

[Deox]

Didn't know SE has set a 4th role: secondary healer. Thanks for inform us. So, according to your reasoning, the very moment an encounter can be healed with a primary healer?(not SCH), SCH are totally out of the scene, since SCH can't compare to a real damage dealer. How sad for us SCHs...

Did you know there are 3 different dps roles too? Melee, Caster, Ranged (support) themoreyouknow.jpg

And SCH dps is pretty damn good atm btw

I honestly do feel kind of awful for complaining about DUNGEONS of all things, but come on now, at least let me keep the fairy when I dissipate... otherwise I'll be halfway in building up my gauge due to lustrate + excog and then have it rendered useless just WHEN I need fairy to use that tether healing...

I was running with tanks that were chain pulling the i300 dungeons when I was still in i290 gear. It's a small challenge yeah but sch since release has always been the worst dungeon healer due to our bad aoe, and yes they made it even worse lol

If a majority of your end game time is going to be focused on dungeons and you wanted to do them fast and efficiently it was always recommended to level WHM

[Spiroglyph]

I was running with tanks that were chain pulling the i300 dungeons when I was still in i290 gear. It's a small challenge yeah but sch since release has always been the worst dungeon healer due to our bad aoe, and yes they made it even worse lol

If a majority of your end game time is going to be focused on dungeons and you wanted to do them fast and efficiently it was always recommended to level WHM

Strangely enough my gripe with SCH DPS at the moment is our lack of miasma II :P it'd be nice to be able to alternate between this and shadow flare as a minor form of mitigation (by applying a debuff on the mobs) - I mean, I was as annoyed at bane changes as much as the next scholar, but it's not like this on its own is a deal breaker. As you said our DPS is still nice, even if slightly lower than HW sch.

SCH is not NOT viable in dungeons, it's just... our skills could use some tweaking - right now it feels like a good portion of the skills you use the most in 4-mans conflicts in some manner with the rest of your toolkit... little to no coherency or synergy.

We don't need Physick II, spammable succor or on-demand Indom, personally I think our aoe skills are the one thing that doesn't need (much) change. Perhaps lowering the costs of shields or a slight increase in potency, but it's not bad. Succor was never meant to be spammable anyway.

SCH doesn't need to be as good at buffing the rest of the team as AST, and it doesn't need all the regen skills WHM can bring - but I do feel that our mitigation abilities took a HUGE (kind of unawarranted) hit, or you simply can't even make use of them because you're gonna need to lustrate soon.

[Spiroglyph]

What is Whispering Dawn?

A cooldown :P

SCH is, as you said, "viable" and even good at 8-man content.
My first runs of susanoo ex and lakshmi ex were done on SCH, and despite dying a few times (really should've watched that guide before going in, sorry people who carried me), I had shortage of neither MP nor stacks.

Why is this?

Because damage comes in bursts at specific times of the fight - for most of these, you can spare to spread a shield or just use succ, throw an Indom right after, and your co-healer with their spammable party heals and hots can top up the rest, while your fairy helps with some magic damage mitigation and yeah, whispering dawn.

The thing with this, though, and I'm fairly sure I've pointed this out before as have other people is that the skills which are GREAT for 8-mans are not nearly as useful in roulettes, which is the type of content most of the payerbase run regularly - whereas sacred soil has a place as mitigation in 8-mans, you won't see many people using this in dungeons, where it's practically useless.
Indom isn't going to help much either, as you'll have to blow a stack where ideally you'd be using it on your STR acc tank dressed almost entirely in green gear who sprints right at the start and pulls everything from spawn to boss because it's meta, or whatever the hell else they've been told.

AGAIN, SCH has never NOT been viable and the same applies to now, but you cannot deny that everything from our (and fairy's) heals to our DPS and mitigation has been nerfed down to the effing ground.

As you said, we've always been the off/secondary healer - but this is in content where you have TWO healers...

It's not that we CAN'T carry out our duties in expert or dungeons in general anymore - we can, of course, but you'd have to agree that a great deal of our tools are not really tuned to heal through constant and consistent damage...

I honestly do feel kind of awful for complaining about DUNGEONS of all things, but come on now, at least let me keep the fairy when I dissipate... otherwise I'll be halfway in building up my gauge due to lustrate + excog and then have it rendered useless just WHEN I need fairy to use that tether healing...

[Riyshn]

I actually just found a pretty good metric to pretty much prove my point that Scholar is in fact lacking on healing.

-snip-

HPS on it's own is a useless metric though, unless you filter out overheal - and even then it's not worth much. Healing only matters up to the point that it causes someone to not die - or if you want to be really generous, to full HP; anything after that is worthless. HPS also doesn't take into account the healing that becomes unneeded due to shields.

No one's saying that SCH doesn't have the healing potential to manage in current fights - we absolutely do. The issue is that we have to put in so much effort to manage what the other two healers can do when playing at near minimum.