A tank's concern

[Tillen]

Is this a problem that I am personally at fault with, or were these just some bad healers who don't know how to do their job?.

In the scenarios you have described, then it is bad healers plain and simple. Folks can analyze, "what-if", look for excuses, and blame the META all day. But at the end of the day if someone dies due to gradual loss of HP, then its the healer's fault. Sure folks do dumb things and get themselves killed, but if the tank dies to damage taken then its the healers' fault...plain and simple. Circumstances don't matter, under geared, tank didn't use cooldowns, tank pulled too much, tears tears tears always crying. Healers are equipped to heal under the most austere conditions so blaming the tank is sad...and I main the worst of the three healers!

I main SCH and only wiped on the 67 dungeon on first run cause it was a bitch. WHMs and ESPECIALLY ASTs have NO...ZERO, NOT ONE excuse to wipe a party or let a tank die. If it happens, that's on them. Healers heal, and then DPS second. If they don't know how to rotate between the two, that's on them.

Keep on tanking!.

[Tremara]

Admittedly, the above reason is why I'm kiiinda quick to boot DPSing healers, especially when they're letting someone die. As in, one death = auto kick. I've seen enough of such "healers" to know how it's going to work out from that one wipe.

So it's always the fault of dpsing healer if someone dies ... because - you know - DPS don't tend to stay in sh*t?
I have a simple rule ... if a DPS can't be bothered to move out of AoE to minimize incoming dmg, I can't be bothered to heal them. As long as I see at least an effort I will heal, if not I will spam Holy/Stone and raise them afterwards.

PS: I didn't mention tanks because I seldom run with rnd tanks.

[KalinOrthos]

So it's always the fault of dpsing healer if someone dies ... because - you know - DPS don't tend to stay in sh*t?
I have a simple rule ... if a DPS can't be bothered to move out of AoE to minimize incoming dmg, I can't be bothered to heal them. As long as I see at least an effort I will heal, if not I will spam Holy/Stone and raise them afterwards.

PS: I didn't mention tanks because I seldom run with rnd tanks.

Sorry, but this mindset baffles me. It seems like you're holding the run ransom because people aren't playing up to your standards. There's a stark difference between encouraging people to play better and punishing them for missing mechanics. If I have to heal for you as a paladin because you'd rather spam Stone/Holy, there's something wrong with this picture.

[Feidam]

In the scenarios you have described, then it is bad healers plain and simple. Folks can analyze, "what-if", look for excuses, and blame the META all day. But at the end of the day if someone dies due to gradual loss of HP, then its the healer's fault. Sure folks do dumb things and get themselves killed, but if the tank dies to damage taken then its the healers' fault...plain and simple. Circumstances don't matter, under geared, tank didn't use cooldowns, tank pulled too much, tears tears tears always crying. Healers are equipped to heal under the most austere conditions so blaming the tank is sad...and I main the worst of the three healers!


Keep on tanking!.

This is crap. A tank who requires ridiculous amounts of healing can wipe a group just as easy as a bad healer. Tanks have cooldowns for a reason. Dps do make mistakes no one is perfect so they need heals sometimes too. Having to babysit a tank for every waking gcd isn't fair to the healer or the group. The healers responsibility is to the entire group not just Mr tank who thinks cooldowns or proper gear is not a thing to worry about. Healers are not the whipping posts of the group.

[Tremara]

Sorry, but this mindset baffles me. It seems like you're holding the run ransom because people aren't playing up to your standards. There's a stark difference between encouraging people to play better and punishing them for missing mechanics. If I have to heal for you as a paladin because you'd rather spam Stone/Holy, there's something wrong with this picture.

No, I don't hold the run ransom. How could I? If someone thinks I fail to heal they can always initiate a vote kick but I was never kicked from a party so far. It's not like that it happens on a regular basis that ppl die while I'm healing.
Like I said as long as I see ppl at least trying to move I will always heal them but if they stay in the AoE constantly because they rely on the mindset that the healer will heal and save their ass, then no, I have to pass. It's like encouraging to fail core mechanics of the game.

[Tillen]

This is crap.

No sir. I said based on the scenario that the OP provided and an issue of gradual HP loss, then it is the headers fault. OP asked a specific question and I answered it.

I main healer so I am very well versed in the mistakes of others, falling off platforms, getting the wrong debuff and standing in the wrong puddle, etc. Shit happens. But when a healer flat out decides to DPS more and not heal the tank in time...like the OP asked, then no It's not the tanks fault. I'm on the team to heal, not to DPS. If I can't do that then I'm gone.

By this logic of "oh the tank is under geared so I have to spend my whole time healing" is like the tank saying "oh these deeps are too over geared and not using enmity reductions skills, that's why I can't keep hate" or DPS saying "well that healer needs to meld more Piety, it's not my fault trash pulls take so long, he should have come prepared"
Folks always want to take the easy way out and blame others and never look inward. If healing is a problem, then its on the healer.

[Tillen]

If I have to heal for you as a paladin because you'd rather spam Stone/Holy, there's something wrong with this picture.

This right here.

[Feidam]

This right here.

I agree with her there. I also agree that it is ok for a healer to be busy enough throwing heals that they do not dps. I just took you post to mean a tank sucking up all the heals where no one else can get one is aa good thing and still the healers fault if the group wipes. Which is what I took issue with. Sorry if I misunderstood.

[Elamys]

If healing is a problem, then its on the healer.

If I'm spamming heals and CDs and the tank still isn't living because he's not using defensive CDs or he's in terrible gear (as in, gear so terrible it's a mystery how he got into the dungeon) that is 100% the tank's fault.

Friend of mine got a tank that had only 3k HP more than her as an AST. Nothing she did could keep him alive. Is that her fault? No, it isn't.

Admittedly, the above reason is why I'm kiiinda quick to boot DPSing healers, especially when they're letting someone die. As in, one death = auto kick. I've seen enough of such "healers" to know how it's going to work out from that one wipe.

If you're kicking healers like this for what could have honestly been a mistake or a "lesson learned" for them, you aren't the kind of person who should be running duty finder with randoms.

[Tillen]

I agree with her there. I also agree that it is ok for a healer to be busy enough throwing heals that they do not dps. I just took you post to mean a tank sucking up all the heals where no one else can get one is aa good thing and still the healers fault if the group wipes. Which is what I took issue with. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Lol, all good. She said it better than me anyway, that was the long and convoluted point I was trying to make. No worries.