Botters has RUINED PvP :(

[Ashiee]

This could easily just be latency though. And Frontlines has A LOT of Latency issues. Like have you ever noticed when queueing for a dungeon, you stand there alone for a second, then the rest all pop in at the same exact time? That's not them all coming in at the same time, rather your internet getting that package at once.

I will say the type of movement I'm talking about is different the latency lag. I know theres a lot of latency in frontlines, with Auto DCs if you drop packets and such. The movements I'm talking about are very specific. People stop in weird places, if there's multiple people they stop in a group, and they all move simultaneously a few seconds later. I mean I looked up a few on Lodestone just to see what their match rate is and the people who I suspect based on their movements are the same people who have 300-400+ matches during the week.

That being said, I usually PVP in the dead hours of the game from 1am-5am PST, which is why I have been seeing so many bots usually. You just end up seeing packs of them, between 8-12. People aren't playing as much during those hours and honestly the bots are helping with fast queues so It's honestly whatever for me, I don't mind them. It's not like they all gather on one team, Flames Adders and Mael all have around that many bots during that time of day.

I will that say that once you get out of the dead hours, you will notice Bots a lot less because more actual players are filling the queue. So unless your playing during dead hours like I am, the majority of people in PVP who people are claiming are bots are probably just bad honestly.

[Warlyx]

there are bots? yes , i have seen some myself

we need to punish all the players because bots? NOT AT ALL

they removed the good exp becaus bots....now u want SE to do what? remove tomestones?

[Charlayy]

I can quote the same kind of comment from one of my LS that gather a large group of people: "Play PvP, you gain ton of xp and you don't need to do anything".

Afk and netflix away

[Alleo]

Consideration for PvP in a nutshell. "Bah, that's just PvP, doesn't matter much right? Those peasans should be glad that SE throw a bone to them from time to time"
Boting is not a necessary evil, it's a cancer and a mmo killer. Crafters hate them for a good reason.

Funny how you read my post. No I am not defending bots itself, I am just saying that at the end content must be worth it for SE. They need time and money to create a new map for PVP, which is the reason why they try to put so many incentives behind it. This is also the reason why they banned the chat in feast, made it possible to go into it with a lvl30 job, put EXP behind it and made PVP easier. This was not done for the already playing hardcore PVP players, no this was done to have more people try it out and play it. Because people said that they wont play it for certain reasons. If SE did not care how many people would play it they would not have tried so many things to make it more popular. At the same time if they make the gained EXP way to low this would mean that barely anyone would try it out because its not worth it. And they simply can not make events like the Garo one all the time. Because that would mean that they put even more time and money behind PVP which would mean that it needs to be even more successful to make it worth it. Making it a good opportunity to level up your characters is one way to make a great incentive without putting much work into it. It just had the unfortunate effect that this also got the attention of AFK players and bots. So either SE sees this situation as the lesser evil because it would mean that people still would play PVP thus they got what they wanted or it means that they have to create a solution for this. But only giving something for the winning team is not a solution they probably want..because this would go against their aim to make PVP more popular. (I would love to be able to punish those AFKlers and botters way more easily.)

[KisaiTenshi]

It just had the unfortunate effect that this also got the attention of AFK players and bots. So either SE sees this situation as the lesser evil because it would mean that people still would play PVP thus they got what they wanted or it means that they have to create a solution for this. But only giving something for the winning team is not a solution they probably want..because this would go against their aim to make PVP more popular. (I would love to be able to punish those AFKlers and botters way more easily.)

This is because the design of the map doesn't encourage active play. I've played it a few times, and initially I was like "okay this is fun" but then I kept seeing three people bot on my team and kinda went... nope. I'll do it once for Khloe's book when it comes up, but it's absolutely not fun to play with or against bots.

Here's how I'd fix it, note that I'm not fond of PvP in general, but this feels like it would intentionally complicate things so that AFK and bot play would be detrimental without punishing PvP play itself.

a) Don't have safe zones. Give the player 5-20 seconds of being unable to be damaged after respawning them at the last claimed tower. If no tower claimed, drop them somewhere randomly and unpredictably.

b) Time spent dead counts against you. If more than 10% of the time is spent ko'd or inactive, no reward.

c) Remove mounts, remove sprint entirely. Create a PvP specific movement speed so that all players move at the same speed. Remove fall damage.

d) Put more entrophy into the map design. If there was ever a good business case for a procedurally generated landscape in FFXIV, this is it. This makes it hard or impossible for bots to be able to navigate because they can not use the existing game maps to predict where things will be.

[Pinkie_Pie]

a) Don't have safe zones. Give the player 5-20 seconds of being unable to be damaged after respawning them at the last claimed tower. If no tower claimed, drop them somewhere randomly and unpredictably.

b) Time spent dead counts against you. If more than 10% of the time is spent ko'd or inactive, no reward.

c) Remove mounts, remove sprint entirely. Create a PvP specific movement speed so that all players move at the same speed. Remove fall damage.

d) Put more entrophy into the map design. If there was ever a good business case for a procedurally generated landscape in FFXIV, this is it. This makes it hard or impossible for bots to be able to navigate because they can not use the existing game maps to predict where things will be.

a) Not even WoW, a big top dog game can add something like that, what about people who LIKE defending bases or flags, you gonna punish them too for playing their own way?

b) Then you'll punish the players or player if their team has no healer or they get pub stomped on, this will only further make them not even want to fight in fear of not getting anything.

c) What will that even do against bots, useless idea

d) No matter how you build the map and so on, bots will be bots and afkers will be afkers, they will run on any type of design.

[BigRed5392]

Try playing as Immortal Flame lol they follow as pattern from spawn > base and hangs around for first big crystal or enemy player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JHb1Ga_rf4)

gf is IF. saw 1 bot in 8 matches. (as a flame.) just saying.

afk are not bots though. and you can kick out both.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

If you remove rewards on loss then PvP dies when people get on losing streaks and stop queuing altogether to do more rewarding things with their time. There aren't enough people who frequent PvP for fun alone instead of using their time on content that enables them to progress in some way reliably. So you need rewards for the health of the game.

This is quite untrue. PvP had a small but dedicated, ACTIVE playerbase well before 4.0. It gave no XP, and it wasn't as simplified as it is now (and arguably more fun still). 3.5 and the Garo event overshadowed the fact that they made the biggest change the community had asked for for 2 years - the removal of GC restrictions, which in fact did far more to improve queues than the event did. And it STILL didn't give XP.

Let's stop spreading the wrongful idea that removing XP would kill PvP. If anything it'd bring some integrity back into the mode.

P.S. I can't say it enough: After 3.5 and the Frontline Freelancer option, your choice of GC means about as much in PvP as it does in PvE content. The GC doesn't matter even half as much as the players on your team and the effort they'll put in to win.

[Shut]

snip

I may have been a bit blunt indeed, but I fail to see how this rewarding system can bring any incentive for doing pvp. This system is flawed and actually open a window for bad behaviors such as botting. But this is nothing new, remember feast season 1? You had tons of people throwing match/afking just to get tomes quickly until GM get active, which last until the end of s1. The problem with adding PvE reward in PvP is that it need a better system that count actual participation of players. Until then, those rewards must be counted as extra, not an actual way of farming them.


On long term, the current system doesn't work. 1st because I don't think any new player would get any incentive doing more pvp if their first impression of it is the souvenir of afkers/botters. I also remember lot of comments, either here or on reddit, or on novice network/linkshells, during garo event, that were more like: "Finally, I got my mount/titles, I'm done with this", more than "Hey, I may give a try to pvp in the future". Tbh, that's not my problem if they don't enjoy it, however, this is a kind of case of putting pve reward in pvp fails to create incentive for pvp, because the only reason to do it become for pve rewarding. Another system was "supposed" to be interesting on itself (but was actually stupidly redundant) and gives good reward was also added during heavensward, that was PotD, and it turned quickly into a xp farm only. And that's something I don't want to see with PvP.

Remove mounts, remove sprint entirely. Create a PvP specific movement speed so that all players move at the same speed. Remove fall damage.

They already put sprint into a pvp action. And that's shit. And do not remove fall damage, just pay attention.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Remove mounts, remove sprint entirely. Create a PvP specific movement speed so that all players move at the same speed. Remove fall damage.

With no disrespect, these are bad ideas that would do more harm than good. Though when I saw this:

note that I'm not fond of PvP in general

I can see why perhaps you might suggest that.

And let me just say despite the unpopularity of the game mode (among more serious PvPers) the Shatter map is tactically BEAUTIFUL. The better someone knows the map, the better they can literally use the environment against the enemy. If not for the objective actively discouraging active combat, as well as generally passive players, the Fields of Glory would be an excellent battlefield.