Stop rewarding tanks/healers! We all put in the same effort.

[Granyala]

The same could be said of RDM's who spam dualcasted raise in dungeons.

If you have to "spam" a resurrection spell, I believe the problem lies elsewhere. I would not compare the occasional rez (if you're in a dungeon with me, that number will typically a 0) to the heal-dps playstyle.

[Paladinleeds]

On the other hand, and I noticed that lately, I end up with a lot of "bad" tanks/healers that just went into the dungeon because of the cluster, making it a absolute nightmare, and they will even say that they are not going to play that job, just want the bonus. So either way, while SE tried to make the dps queue's faster with that initiative, it also can back fire in situations as I just mentioned.

Ok, time for me to try and come up with a solution to this. If this is a problem that they're repeatedly doing it, what if it was made that if you receive a certain number of vote kicks as the adventurer in need you get banned from the adventurer in need bonus for x number of days (where x is a positive integer, as in no decimal places)? Could this weed out the problem you described?

[RichardButte]

The same could be said of RDM's who spam dualcasted raise in dungeons. Adventurer in Need Bonus for DPS is so rare that I have only ever seen it maybe 5 or 6 times since I started ARR.
The point I was trying to make is more about them giving all these benefits but only to a select group of players. And I will hammer that point over and over again. If you give it to one, then you need to make it AS EQUALLY FAIR to all. The cracked cluster or w/e should just be a randomized drop to anyone who participated.

DPS are being rewarded in that they actually get to complete dungeon quests.

Remove all incentives to tank/heal and you'd be perpetually waiting for players who happen to prefer those jobs, meaning that DPS players trying to get through the MSQ would hit a 3+ hour wait time when queuing for a dungeon that's necessary to progress the story.

At that point, you'd see a lot more of tanks and healers selling their services in /sh in major cities and in the party finder. You already see a little of this now, but believe me when I say prices would SKYROCKET if DPS players were being forced to wait hours for a queue to pop.

Either you'd pay out the nose for a tank or you can look forward to insanely long queue times...

[Granyala]

On the other hand, and I noticed that lately, I end up with a lot of "bad" tanks/healers that just went into the dungeon because of the cluster, making it a absolute nightmare, and they will even say that they are not going to play that job, just want the bonus.

Yeah if that's the case, the reward is too big.

Never encountered that so far but I'm the healer/tank 99% of the time.

[LalafellDown]

I think the only solution to this is for everyone to become a tank. That way SE will have no choice, but to add a DPS reward to Duty Finder. It's brilliant! C'mon everybody, follow me!!!

[Vhailor]

Underlying problems that SE is incompetent to fix... I guess that they should just create NPC tanks and script them to supply for the demand.

Not at all. There are several things SE can do, and many of them would be simple.

The easiest would be to impose gates on all existing dungeons so that pull size wasn't a decision-making process. They could remove the gates for non-DF parties so as to soothe people who run in preformed groups. That would immediately relieve a lot of the healer / tank stress, because nobody would be whining about speed-pulls if the dungeon mechanics removed any possibility of it. Less uncertainty, less room for DPS-role players to pressure the tanks - better experience.

There are also other options. Making Enmity maintenance more interesting would help; tanks shouldn't be forced into "tanking mode" or "damage-dealing mode"; they should have multiple options within the tanking role. Perhaps a Regen-like effect for Enmity? Who knows; that's up to SE to sort out. Either way, giving tanks different ways of fulfilling their role can only help matters. The most difficult (but likely most effective) solution would be to re-balance dungeons around a 5- or 6-person party setup, with the additional slots going to DPS-role players. Unfortunately, the only convenient window of opportunity for a change like that is the launch of a new expansion, which would naturally allow for a "all dungeons above level X" setting, so that SE doesn't need to re-balance older dungeons to meaningfully impact queue times.

Hell, even offering a simple apology to people for so badly miscalculating with the RDM / SAM decision would go a long way. It wouldn't fix the problem, but at least players wouldn't feel quite so insulted. SE got up on their high horse for months leading up to the release of Stormblood, all to justify the release of two DPS-role jobs without any healer or tank options. It backfired, badly. They should suck it up, apologize, and pledge to learn from it (as well as some of the more horrific 4.0 combat changes, which single-handedly destroyed SCH populations and weakened WAR / DRK / WHM numbers).

Or, y'know, we could follow your snarky suggestion.

[YitharV2]

On the other hand, and I noticed that lately, I end up with a lot of "bad" tanks/healers that just went into the dungeon because of the cluster, making it a absolute nightmare, and they will even say that they are not going to play that job, just want the bonus. So either way, while SE tried to make the dps queue's faster with that initiative, it also can back fire in situations as I just mentioned.

This is why I don't agree with the solution. It's a bandaid fix to the underlying problems revolving around tanks and healers not queuing. You just get players chasing after the reward.

[Jonnycbad]

"Wahh I had to wait 40 minutes for a DPS queue!"

You suckers wouldn't have lasted a day in FFXI. Where, if you weren't a Bard, Ranger, or Red Mage, you sat in town with your party flag up for 5-6 hours to maybe get a party invite. And, if you were lucky and get a good group? You *might* make 3k exp per hour, or enough to fill 10-15% of your exp bar from 65-66. God help you if you were a DRG or PLD for the first 5 years of FFXI. No FATEs, no POTD, no quests gave exp, and soloed mobs were hard as hell for most jobs and gave a sliding scale of exp where enemies of your level gave a flat 100 exp, weaker gave 50-75. Mobs 1-2 levels above you could kill you super easily and gave 125-150. And you needed about 60,000 to level up in the 60-70 range. You stayed your level for weeks.


P.S. dying in XI lowered your exp by 10% if you warped back without a Raise. Getting raised gave 50-90% of that back depending on the tier of the raise. But the main point was you could lose enough exp from failing solo attempts to DELEVEL (Lord help you if you had just gotten a whole new set of Level 75 endgame gear and deleveld and your gear is stripped. Theb you can't equip any of it till you leveled back up, so you were naked with bare fists that unless you were a Monk, or had a job with native Hand to Hand skill, hit for 0 or missed.

[Nixxe]

Not at all. There are several things SE can do, and many of them would be simple.

The easiest would be to impose gates on all existing dungeons so that pull size wasn't a decision-making process. They could remove the gates for non-DF parties so as to soothe people who run in preformed groups. That would immediately relieve a lot of the healer / tank stress, because nobody would be whining about speed-pulls if the dungeon mechanics removed any possibility of it. Less uncertainty, less room for DPS-role players to pressure the tanks - better experience.

Deliberately designing DF versions of instances meant to be as obnoxious as possible all so a few far too easily stressed tanks and healers are catered to doesn't sound even remotely sensible.

[Vhailor]

Deliberately designing DF versions of instances meant to be as obnoxious as possible all so a few far too easily stressed tanks and healers are catered to doesn't sound even remotely sensible.

Whether or not something is obnoxious is purely subjective. Personally, I find it obnoxious when my rotation consists of cure-spamming or AoE spells only, but that's speed-pulls for you. I'd much rather take a few minutes longer and have breathing room to actually use my full toolset.

If you have anything relatively objective to add to the discussion, feel free. Otherwise, why bother wasting everyone's time with drivel?