MCH AoE level 89 and below

[Elnidfse]

I know. I'm just bringing the predicament to attention in the hopes that the more people talk about it, the more likely it will be to be addressed.

[KalinOrthos]

Inevitable 4.05 notes:

We felt that Flamethrower and Spread Shot were doing too much damage, so we are adding damage fall-off effects to them to bring MCH more in line with other DPS.

Additionally, we've increased Bard's Raining Death potency by 100. Because why not?

[Psycofang]

And oh god the typo! It says 89!

We limit break already? I cant find Maat.

[Myon88]

It ain't that bad. Your roulettes don't take an exceptional amount of time by any means and rotationally nothing changed on trash packs except for primarily using cone aoe instead of circle aoe.

You might not think that trivial content like roulettes is worth being annoyed over, and that is your prerogative, but that is the premise of this entire thread. It's undeniable that our AoE capabilities have taken a hit in most roulette content (the vast majority of which is below level 70); spread shot got nerfed from 100 to 80 potency, and bishop got given the flare treatment with damage falloff.

The other more important change, and the one that makes me wonder how you can say 'rotationally nothing changed' is that we lost lead shot. We lost an entire element of decision making to do with AoE, which was deciding when to stop multidotting things with lead shot in order to start AoEing proper with spread/grenado shot. Pulls often take some time to set up before the tank finds a comfortable spot to stop in, and lead shot gave us a way to use that dead time to pre-dot everything with lead shot, so the whole group was ticking with that juicy 480 potency's worth of damage before you even began to AoE. Even for pulls where combat proper begins immediately, you still had to do the math in your head whether investing a GCD on lead shot was worth the tradeoff compared to the more immediate payoff of spread/grenado shot.

Now, losing that depth to the gameplay is one thing, but it also represents another hefty nerf to our damage throughput, as lead shot used to be one of the highest potency/GCD and potency/TP skills in the game by far. Multidotting is so strong that you should feel the loss of that damage output very acutely across the entire spectrum of downsynced content.

Spread shot = roughly 1.3k HP a hit every 2.5 seconds.
Flamethrower= roughly 1.1k HP per second, totalling to roughly 2.8k HP a GCD. Both numbers are fully buffed, including ammo for Spread.

I'm perfectly comfortable with my roulettes.

I agree with you that at level 70 in dungeon-type content, machinist AoE isn't all that bad. While we are no longer as good at multidotting many separated targets as bards, our burst AoE on clumped targets is still somewhat decent in short timeframes (ricochet got a buff too which helped). But as the title of the thread says, it's below-70 content the OP is mainly talking about and I agree with him that it is a miserable experience with our current toolkit.

[Greedalox]

You might not think that trivial content like roulettes is worth being annoyed over, and that is your prerogative, but that is the premise of this entire thread. It's undeniable that our AoE capabilities have taken a hit in most roulette content (the vast majority of which is below level 70); spread shot got nerfed from 100 to 80 potency, and bishop got given the flare treatment with damage falloff.

I never said we didn't take a pre 70 hit. I said it's not a big deal and that rotationally we didn't have to do much different now. I don't do as much damage as I used to in 60 dungeons- what I am saying is that it wasn't hit hard enough for me to consider never doing my lower level roulettes- or rather not any less consideration than when the cap was 60 anyways.

[Myon88]

Well that's your opinion and I respect it - but I'm just saying for me the difference in performance is enough to make me just play bard instead. Otherwise for this whole expansion in roulette content I'll be thinking "Gee, this could be going so much faster/smoother if I had a different job stone equipped", and it would be true - I'm not prepared to put up with that.

[Greedalox]

If you're implying you'll be using bard for low level roulettes, good on ya. I'm glad you're sticking with MCH otherwise.

If you're implying you're leaving MCH for BRD overall because of leveling roulettes, I'm sorry you're settling overall to save yourself that precious minute. Also in this case, I recommend many different classes- all of which are faster than bard in dungeons.

[Myon88]

On your last point, no there really isn't - especially not now that bane got hit with a nerf as well. There's something to be said about a single job being good in multiple things being a small bonus as well. Less hassle managing different gearsets, not having to put up with playstyles you don't particularly enjoy, and so on. Hey, maybe the only glamour set I like is a ranged one!

It would be one thing if machinist had something else going for it right now - endgame raiding performance, PvP viability, anything really - but sadly none of them are the case. I'll be happy to re-evaluate that judgment once new information comes in, but rest assured until then I'm sticking to my bard for raiding and the rest of the game as well, it would be irresponsible for me to bring a machinist.

[Elnidfse]

hat I am saying is that it wasn't hit hard enough for me to consider never doing my lower level roulettes- or rather not any less consideration than when the cap was 60 anyways.

Was an easy enough decision making process for me. When you roulette with friends and the tank is keen to do super pulls. You start to outright feel it in your soul. Given the solo nature of the new incentives. I feel it that much more when I have to marry myself into a dungeon for 30 minutes. It's terrible!

[Spiriel_Basanda]

It would be one thing if machinist had something else going for it right now - endgame raiding performance, PvP viability, anything really - but sadly none of them are the case.

I'm going to preface this with, "I don't personally know cause I don't PvP", but from my understanding, MCH is incredible at PvP right now. Every single person in my FC that PvPs, any PvP shout convo that happens, a few actual relatives of mine, even certain people on this forum, they ALL say MCH is pretty great/OP. So maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I can't imagine I would see it so much if it wasn't.

More on topic though, I fully planned on never using roulette as MCH again when I get something else to 70. Low level MCH just isn't really fun.