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  1. #1
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
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    Lamia
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    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Seyrr View Post
    Garlemald wouldn't abandon its loyal soldiers, right? ... Right?
    The issue with the Castrums in Eorzea is that, aside from the ones in Gyr Abania, they are all in Eorzean-held territory. These Castrums were, largely, built during the 5-year time skip between the ending of 1.x and 2.0. This was the timeframe during which Gauis' XIVth Legion went rogue... and all deemed traitors punishable by death, which is why Nero didn't return to Garlemald after Gaius' death.

    It's not that Garlemald abandoned its loyal soldiers, it's that Garlemald's loyal soldiers abandoned it. Kinda. They were more loyal to Gaius than Garlemald. I suspect things would be quite different had Gaius succeeded in subjugating Eorzea... but I digress.

    That said, I suspect the soldiers in the Keeper of the Lake may have been sent by Garlemald proper. It's unclear. We do know that the Empire is able to carry out operations in Eorzea if it so wishes though - see Grynewaht attacking us while we're attempting to access Omega's control room in Mor Dhona, the heart of Eorzea.
    (3)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
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    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  2. #2
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Miyo Mohzolhi
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    Sophia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    This was the timeframe during which Gauis' XIVth Legion went rogue... and all deemed traitors punishable by death, which is why Nero didn't return to Garlemald after Gaius' death.
    I have this vague recollection that the XIVth were responsible for taking over (or rather, re-establishing themselves in) the Castrums after the Battle of Cartenau, by executing whatever remnants of the VIIth legion were still there. I'm not sure if this is canon, though.

    If it is, then everyone in the XIVth, including the rank and file, knew the consequences of going rogue. That they followed Gaius anyway is possibly a sign of severe systemic dysfunction in the whole Imperial military organization; if the soldiers are loyal to their general over their nation (due to actual loyalty, or merely fear of punishment), then there isn't much preventing said general from attempting to launch a coup, assuming they have plans to deal with the other legions.

    EDIT: Found the cite: lorebook page 54, about Gaius's actions directly after the fall of Dalamud. He sent the XIVth to take over Castrum Novum, which is now known as Castrum Centri, then sent troops all over Eorzea to secure land and build even more Castrums.

    Considering one of them was Castrum Meridianum, which has a Phantom Train Depot like Castrum Centri has, I would suggest the XIVth had Imperial sanction at least in the beginning. I would otherwise find it difficult to believe that a rogue Imperial Legion, presumably cut off from mainland support, would be able to construct four entire Castrums plus one outpost at Cape Westwind in the space of five years.

    (Four Castrums, since Castrum Oriens was already built after Silvertear, and Castrum Novum was renamed Castrum Centri. The extra Castrum is Castrum Aquilonis, over in Dravania, near Ishgard.)
    (2)
    Last edited by YianKutku; 07-29-2017 at 04:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
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    Enkidoh Roux
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    Balmung
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    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    I have this vague recollection that the XIVth were responsible for taking over (or rather, re-establishing themselves in) the Castrums after the Battle of Cartenau, by executing whatever remnants of the VIIth legion were still there. I'm not sure if this is canon, though.
    Those Castri did not even exist before the Calamity though - there was only a single castra established in Eorzea in the Sixth Astral Era located in Mor Dhona (Castrum Novus), that was Nael van Darnus's base of operations. Castrum Novus was destroyed in the Calamity, being sited right next to Carteneau, and following that when Gaius and the XIVth seized land throughout Eorzea to build new castri he simply took over what was left of Castrum Novus and rebuilt it into a new castra, renaming it in the process (Castrum Centri).

    It's highly likely the surviving VIIth troops, if any, were simply absorbed into the XIVth, but it's equally likely they all died at Carteneau, given their zealous devotion to Nael.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Miyo Mohzolhi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    Those Castri did not even exist before the Calamity though - there was only a single castra established in Eorzea in the Sixth Astral Era located in Mor Dhona (Castrum Novus), that was Nael van Darnus's base of operations. Castrum Novus was destroyed in the Calamity, being sited right next to Carteneau, and following that when Gaius and the XIVth seized land throughout Eorzea to build new castri he simply took over what was left of Castrum Novus and rebuilt it into a new castra, renaming it in the process (Castrum Centri).

    It's highly likely the surviving VIIth troops, if any, were simply absorbed into the XIVth, but it's equally likely they all died at Carteneau, given their zealous devotion to Nael.
    I'm going to do some tea-leaf reading on the specific language used in the lorebook:


    Quote Originally Posted by Encyclopedia Eorzea, pg 54
    Meanwhile, having watched the battle unfold from the deck of an imperial airship, Legatus Gaius van Baelsar, commander of the XIVth Legion, saw an opportunity. Upon withdrawing to Ala Mhigo with the remainder of his fleet, he sent troops to Mor Dhona's Castrum Novum, with orders to execute the remnants of van Darnus's VIIth Legion and secure the fortress for the XIVth. From there they dispatched cohorts to La Noscea, Thanalan, the Black Shroud, and Coerthas, and upon the lands they claimed were built many new castra.
    So we know that there were still members of the VIIth Legion at Castrum Novum, and enough of it was still standing for the XIVth to "secure". It is also implied from the wording that Castrum Novum, to be renamed Castrum Centri, was not considered one of the "many new castra".

    If we're being totally pedantic, it might be more accurate to say that Gaius believed there were still members of the VIIth etc, and he gave orders with that belief.

    (Completely unrelated, but we do meet a few survivors of the VIIth Legion. Apart from Kan-E-Senna's bodyguard, there's also the deserter living near Wineport. And then there are the deserter's former comrades, who tried to kill him. It is implied that apart from Kan-E-Senna's bodyguard, none of them are altogether sane anymore.)

    One bit that does puzzle me is where the lorebook includes the Black Shroud as one of the places a new castrum was built. The only castrum in the Shroud is Castrum Oriens, which to my recollection is built around Baelsar's Wall. As in Baelsar's Wall is effectively part of Castrum Oriens, or Castrum Oriens is part of Baelsar's Wall; they're basically synonymous.

    In the lorebook map, however, Castrum Oriens is built on the Shroud side of Baelsar's Wall. I suppose we can blame simplified map stylism, but it would be odd for Baelsar's Wall, built soon after the Battle of Silvertear Skies, to not have a castrum built into it, simply for defence. A static wall isn't very much deterrence, after all.
    (1)
    Last edited by YianKutku; 07-30-2017 at 05:48 PM. Reason: 1k character limit

  5. #5
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
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    Enkidoh Roux
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    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    (Completely unrelated, but we do meet a few survivors of the VIIth Legion. Apart from Kan-E-Senna's bodyguard, there's also the deserter living near Wineport. And then there are the deserter's former comrades, who tried to kill him. It is implied that apart from Kan-E-Senna's bodyguard, none of them are altogether sane anymore.)
    It was my understanding that Drest, the marooned Juggernaut pilot in Raincatcher Gully was actually a member of the XIVth, as he was actually assigned to nearby Castrum Occidens (his Juggernaut was shot down by the Maelstrom, which is presumably the wrecked Juggernaut in the nearby swamp) - of course that doesn't preclude that he was not formerly part of the VIIth as well, but the main thing is, he was targeted for death because he deserted, as you mentioned (lacking the lorebook I only have in-game information and info from other sites to go on). Either way, he deserted because he hates being forced to fight for a cause he does not believe in (having come from another land, presumably Othard), and just wants to return to his family.

    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    One bit that does puzzle me is where the lorebook includes the Black Shroud as one of the places a new castrum was built. The only castrum in the Shroud is Castrum Oriens, which to my recollection is built around Baelsar's Wall. As in Baelsar's Wall is effectively part of Castrum Oriens, or Castrum Oriens is part of Baelsar's Wall; they're basically synonymous.

    In the lorebook map, however, Castrum Oriens is built on the Shroud side of Baelsar's Wall. I suppose we can blame simplified map stylism, but it would be odd for Baelsar's Wall, built soon after the Battle of Silvertear Skies, to not have a castrum built into it, simply for defence. A static wall isn't very much deterrence, after all.
    Well, 1.0 stated that there was a Wall sealing Ala Mhigo off from the rest of Eorzea even before then, although the exact time it was built is unclear, it would have probably been not that long after the Empire's annexation of the city. It was never called anything other than simply 'the Wall' and that the Ala Mhigan Resistance acted as a kind of Underground Railroad guiding refugees out of the city under it to freedom in Eorzea.. at least until the Resistance's ill-fated attempt to steal a Garlean airship and turn it against the XIVth in Ala Mhigo (Gaius single-handedly wiped the entire Resistance cell out).

    As far as 1.0 went Castrum Oriens did not exist physically or was not even mentioned at all, so I'm liable to take it that the Wall preceded Castrum Oriens' construction (by all accounts Garlean engineering is very adaptable and can be quickly constructed and modified with little effort, being mechanized and all, so this does not seem surprising). But if the lorebook says differently, I'd take that as a retcon. The castrum on the Ala Mhigan side of the border also being called Castrum Oriens may just have been for consistency's sake, rather than having any lore reasoning.
    (0)
    Last edited by Enkidoh; 07-30-2017 at 09:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rannie View Post
    Aaaaannnd now I just had a mental image of Lahabrea walking into a store called Bodies R Us and trying on different humans.... >.<

    Lahabrea: hn too tall... tooo short.... Juuuuuust right.
    Venat was right.

  6. #6
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Miyo Mohzolhi
    World
    Sophia
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    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    It was my understanding that Drest, the marooned Juggernaut pilot in Raincatcher Gully was actually a member of the XIVth
    Oh, you're right. I mistook Drest's mission as one from the VIIth around the time of Cartenau, since he was already in Eastern La Noscea for some time when Shamani stumbled across him. But checking the dialogue, the mission where he was shot down was three years ago, so well after Cartenau.

    As far as 1.0 went Castrum Oriens did not exist physically or was not even mentioned at all, so I'm liable to take it that the Wall preceded Castrum Oriens' construction (by all accounts Garlean engineering is very adaptable and can be quickly constructed and modified with little effort, being mechanized and all, so this does not seem surprising). But if the lorebook says differently, I'd take that as a retcon. The castrum on the Ala Mhigan side of the border also being called Castrum Oriens may just have been for consistency's sake, rather than having any lore reasoning.
    The lorebook actually agrees with you, which was why I was skeptical of the lorebook at first. Silvertear stopped the Empire's advance, so the Garleans constructed Baelsar's Wall and huddled behind it. After that, then the Garleans constructed Castrum Oriens.

    The map provided in that section has the symbol for Castrum Oriens a small but noticeable distance from the symbol representing Baelsar's Wall, though. There are also arrows connecting all the castrums, mostly emanating from Castrum Centri to the others except Castrum Oriens, and having an arrow go from Ala Mhigo to Castrum Centri. It would make sense for these to be supply lines.

    The arrow pointing to Castrum Oriens comes from Baelsar's Wall, right next to it. The implication is that Castrum Oriens, clearly in Shroud territory, is supplied by Baelsar's Wall.

    Which is not exactly wrong, but in the Baelsar's Wall dungeon, we see a full Garlean stronghold, worthy of being called a castrum, built around that wall, and people refer to it as Castrum Oriens. And since there is also a Castrum Oriens on the Gyr Abania side of Baelsar's Wall, it would mean either Castrum Oriens is right next to Baelsar's Wall on the Ala Mhigan side (and so not quite in "Eorzean territory" as the passage from the lorebook states), or Castrum Oriens is built around Baelsar's Wall, incorporating it into its design. Which would in fact fit with both the lorebook and what we see, but again, I find it difficult to believe that Gaius waited until after the Battle of Cartenau to begin fortifying the Wall.
    (0)
    Last edited by YianKutku; 07-30-2017 at 10:05 PM. Reason: 1k character limit