Is anyone else dying to get to Garlemald?

[VargasVermillion]

People underestimate how harsh this world would be. Yes the garleans have little right to do what they do from a moral ground, but if we're talking purely on logic then yes they actually do because say they were living on the same continent as the xeala tribes, ala mhigo or even Doma. If they encountered the garleans before they gained any advantage they would probably have taken advantage of the situation and conquered them instead. The only reason they have run afoul with the rest of the world is because they ultimately won and were the ones who got there first. These political scenarios often reflect the real world and this is how it always has been, one nation will take advantage of another if the opportunity arises and that includes the modern era.

[YianKutku]

Speaking of, I'm actually really interested in what garlemalds neighbors were like before they got annexed, didn't the lorebook state ilsabard as a harsh continent filled with various warlords and such before the garleans dominated the others?

Northern Ilsabard is a harsh place filled with warlords and raider bands. The Garleans originally came from southern Ilsabard, which is temperate and apparently not a bad place to live. Still, seeing as they got driven to northern Ilsabard in the first place, things were obviously not perfect.

Yes the garleans have little right to do what they do from a moral ground, but if we're talking purely on logic then yes they actually do because say they were living on the same continent as the xeala tribes, ala mhigo or even Doma. If they encountered the garleans before they gained any advantage they would probably have taken advantage of the situation and conquered them instead.

But they're not on the same continent. Ala Mhigo is on Aldenard, and Doma and the Xaela tribes are on Othard. Asking about the hypothetical where all of these are on the same continent is irrelevant, because they're not, and Garlemald conquered them anyway.

The only other known nation in Hydaelyn's history which spanned multiple continents were the Allagans, who were generally not moral paragons either. Even the War of the Magi restricted itself to Eorzea.

[Alleo]

...because say they were living on the same continent as the xeala tribes, ala mhigo or even Doma. If they encountered the garleans before they gained any advantage they would probably have taken advantage of the situation and conquered them instead

The Garleans are coming from a whole different continent. They had nothing to do with Doma, Ala Mhigo or other countries we know of. So I am not sure where the information is coming from, that they are from the same place? Also in modern era it would be bad if someone tries to conquer a free state. That surely would create another war. (And war is always bad)

[VargasVermillion]

The Garleans are coming from a whole different continent. They had nothing to do with Doma, Ala Mhigo or other countries we know of. So I am not sure where the information is coming from, that they are from the same place? Also in modern era it would be bad if someone tries to conquer a free state. That surely would create another war. (And war is always bad)

My point is that many of our allies would of done the same thing if the opportunity came. If a nation encounters a weaker nation they'll do what they can do get as much from that as possible. Hydaelyn isn't a place where you can apply a modern day moral compass.

[Alleo]

My point is that many of our allies would of done the same thing if the opportunity came. If a nation encounters a weaker nation they'll do what they can do get as much from that as possible. Hydaelyn isn't a place where you can apply a modern day moral compass.

We cant say that they would have done the same thing because they are not in that position so we cant just assume that they would react the same way. I mean look at the current Eorzea, they needed a primal and Ilbert to finally go against Garlemald on their own continent. Also like Cilia said we still have lots of sovereign states in Eorzea and in the last few years only Ala Mhigo tried to take over Gridania. (And some even longer time ago we had the Uldah situation) Yet every conflict of the last decades always stayed in Eorzea and did not include the whole world.

And seeing how the Alliance reacted to the tower shooting and to the experiments I am quite sure that morality is a big point. It is not to our standard today but even in our time we have countries that are not at the western standard.

Also war is never necessary and war is alway bad..there is no war that is right..and we see it today that a lot of western countries are trying to solve conflicts in other ways..because all that war does is killing people and breeding more hate..So yes war itself is black..

[VargasVermillion]

Also war is never necessary and war is alway bad..there is no war that is right..and we see it today that a lot of western countries are trying to solve conflicts in other ways..because all that war does is killing people and breeding more hate..So yes war itself is black..

We wouldn't be as technologically advanced without war, the most technologically advanced nations in history built that up out of necessity. Good or bad is irrelevant, it's just inevitable while people can have differing views on how the world should be run or who's god is the real one or when different lands have to compete for resources.

[Cilia]

We wouldn't be as technologically advanced without war, the most technologically advanced nations in history built that up out of necessity. Good or bad is irrelevant, it's just inevitable while people can have differing views on how the world should be run or who's god is the real one or when different lands have to compete for resources.

Wars should not be waged for the sole purpose of technological advancement. In Garlemald's case, they did not begin their large-scale and long-running campaign of conquest until after a technological breakthrough resulted in the magitek engine, which Solus zos Galvus quickly adapted for use in war.

While I agree that war is an inevitable part of life, it should be the absolute last course of action. Diplomacy should at least be tried before resorting to violence.

[Cilia]

... in the last few years only Ala Mhigo tried to take over Gridania. (And some even longer time ago we had the Uldah situation)...

That war everybody loves to bring up when condemning Ala Mhigo, the Summer War, happened a century ago. Also it should be noted that the Gridanians have forgiven the Ala Mhigans for it.

The War of the Sisters between Ul'dah and Sil'dih was four centuries ago. Ul'dah did commit at least one atrocity during the war - they used Traders' Spurn to turn the Sil'dihns into zombies. You can probably tell how that ended. The Ul'dahns didn't record it that way - history is written by the winners, after all - but... again, it was four centuries ago, and we have no records of contemporary Ul'dahns condoning such actions, plutocrats or not.

On the subject of how we get to Garlemald (if that is what ends up happening), while I agree that having us go in as a POW, break out, and join a rebellion would be cool, from a gameplay perspective I doubt it'd happen. Too much would be inaccessible if they did it that way, unless the "Garlean Rebellion" (for want of a better term) has access to a mini-aetheryte they can install in their base and Garlemald just happens to have aetherytes its citizens can't use in its cities. I'd say there's the matter of us being an (in)famous killer to the Garleans as well, but given the crown prince of the Empire seemingly had no idea who we were when first we met perhaps most Garleans don't actually know who we are? Great opportunity for drama, though.

I currently compare the Empire's technology to that of the Thirstquencher Empire from Brave Fencer Musashi, cybernetics notwithstanding.