Please give us back Darkside MP eating mechanic

[Walfan]

Maybe it's just boring and brain dead to those who were forced to maximize drk during prog, or that could just be me.

And you don't wan't to maximize dps now ?

Let's compare the "complexity" we lost :
- 30 sec dot that was easy to maintain
- Delirium was a different key to hit at the end of your combo with max dps in mind when you weren't going to DA, otherwise that you had to hit to refresh the debuff when needed
- mana managment was easy, use DA to prevent capping mana because you have no reason to use it more if the boss isn't taking increased damage (and you still have to use these windows well now, it's arguably even harder) or isn't going to leave or die soon
- Darkside leak wasn't an issue if you didn't overuse DA
- low blow procs weren't hard and weren't exciting to me at least (I know some liked them)

Now :
- mana usage is more fluid and feels better overall
- TBN has to be used as much as possible because with the buffs it's always a dps gain now even out of grit
- TBN has a CD and conditions unlike DA so you have to spend as little time as possible with it open while also keeping enough mana to use DA Bloodspiller and use DA CnS on CD
- TBN has an overall high skill ceiling that's going to differ from boss to boss to optimally both mitigate and dps as much as possible
- Blood gauge to manage on top, you don't want to cap it and it fills very fast if you use TBN well, some decision making with using DA Bloodspiller or not
- Different DA priorities depending if you're in grit or not and planning to do if you're switching stances regulary
- Good Delirium usage

Please explain to me how it's not harder now. I didn't like losing Scourge and the old Delirium either but it's a fact we got far more complex at 70.

See this post for some math :
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...76&sh=96ff6a3a

Real issues :
- Dark passenger is worthless
- Mitigation is lacking
- Blood price needs to be buffed when its counterpart is miles ahead
- TBN duration should arguably be extended by a few seconds

[Age_of_Oblivion]

What it boils down to is this: if you feel that the changes made DRK braindead, then the reason you felt it was difficult before is that you were pushing yourself to meet the skill floor of the class. That floor has been lowered, while the ceiling was raised. The class is more accessible and more difficult to play well, while being easier to play competently. And while there were some... uh, questionable design decisions (givemedarkpassengerbackyoufucks), the class is moving in a better direction.

[TheCount]

Point remains that for anything but max level the Dark Knight remains boring, and even then it still has some big problems. It doesn't have a real strength that makes it stand out amongst the classes, it's weak. Not to mention certain completely useless abilities *cough* dark passenger *cough*

From what i've seen it's also the weakest tank damage-wise despite having less utility and defensives than the Paladin, which is strange considering Yoshi-p himself said the reason Samurai is doing more damage than dragoon/others is because Samurai has less utility so its balanced around that, yet apparently that doesn't go for Dark Knight when comparing to Paladin. Considering the Dark Knight kinda benefits tanking-wise from their damage due to Soul-eater that would be a very welcome buff at this point to have them on an equal level.

[Nivarea]

I'm joining the consensus that while the skill floor is lower than it was in HW, the skill ceiling is higher than before.

I have not yet really incorporated the buff in potency of Bloodspiller in my rotation, so I'm still using TBN sparcely while OTing. Even so, by trying to maximise my DPS and align my buffs together, with BW window mostly, there is time where MP is as low, if not lower, than it was at time in HW. I made a really good fight on O2 yesterday as an OT, with close to 100% uptime on the boss. I used everything on the toolkit to optimize my DPS (well, not Dark Passenger :stillfeelsbad: ), even used TBN on the MT to proc Blood and moar Bloodspillers, and damn, did it still feels very satisfying and fluid when everything goes like that. I was full VIT accessories, and still got a respectable 2550 DPS (I think it's respectable?). I'm missing my old 3.0 DRK, still prefering it too, but 4.0 DRK is still a very fun job, with a different kind of busy. It's all about juggling between your MPs and your Blood now, it's the synergy between these two ressources that make the job fun and well thought.

Now, I'm waiting for 4.05 balance to see what they're going to change or improve (if they're nerfing things, I'll be upset). Dark Passenger is the most urgent change they should make, and I still think that while we have TBN, we still lack mitigation when it's not up. I'm also all for Scourge as a third combo finisher, ala Goring Blade for PLD. But I'm not optimist enough to think they will bring it back.

[Kalocin]

This would actually make the job even more "brain dead" as you'd literally be doing ONLY 1-2-3 without modifying it, saving enough mana for TBN and enough for a DA on either Blood Spiller or C&S. You probably wouldn't even have enough for SE or SS due to needing to keep mana above 3000ish at all times. If they increased syphon strike's return to match the degen then we'd likely just see the same gameplay we currently have, except you'd simply keep a high enough reserve. This would result in more or less just putting a random 3k cap on our mana for no discernible reason

If you threw up a mana degen as the job currently is, you'd actually end up doing LESS of everything due to wanting to save enough mana for mitigation or DA. Not only would we be doing less damage but we'd 100% be left in the dust for a PLD since they wouldn't have any issues like this.

[TheCount]

If you threw up a mana degen as the job currently is, you'd actually end up doing LESS of everything due to wanting to save enough mana for mitigation or DA. Not only would we be doing less damage but we'd 100% be left in the dust for a PLD since they wouldn't have any issues like this.

I agree with what you say, but i'll add that we're currently already being 100% left in the dust by Paladin. They even have more effective means of restoring their health, hell they are so good compared to us that they can solo tank some bosses just using their own clemency heals and mitigation abilities. You'd think the tank that has health draining would be the more long-lasting one without a healer but nope, Paladin has even that over us.

[ManuelBravo]

True having to use your brain is a nice way to stay on your toes. IF anything perhaps add a way to make CD faster or bring back Dark Dance. Few DRK know how to use it and it was a nice way to have some type of DEF while waiting for CD. While The Blackest Night is pretty nice it would be nice to have one while waiting for other CD.

[Kalocin]

I agree with what you say, but i'll add that we're currently already being 100% left in the dust by Paladin. They even have more effective means of restoring their health, hell they are so good compared to us that they can solo tank some bosses just using their own clemency heals and mitigation abilities. You'd think the tank that has health draining would be the more long-lasting one without a healer but nope, Paladin has even that over us.

I think a good way of wording it is that Dark Knights somewhat lost their identity and we feel like a Paladin without their shield. If that's the case then we should have a reason for using a 2h sword.

[DWolfwood]

I think a good way of wording it is that Dark Knights somewhat lost their identity and we feel like a Paladin without their shield. If that's the case then we should have a reason for using a 2h sword.

DRK never had an identity in 3.x other than being a noob trap.

[Kinkoz]

DRK never had an identity in 3.x other than being a noob trap.

You mean other than the fact that they had the best magic defense and could produce numbers that were competitive with a WAR?