From one tank to other tanks..STR Gear is not a thing anymore..Get used to it now!

[Kosmos992k]

So, if we assume the higher end

That's currently not a very safe assumption, so I would suggest you re-write with reference to the lower bound as well as the upper bound since assuming the most positive possible interpretation skews the entire discussion you are going with.

[Klongol]

Why not the median? 4%

You're looking at 8% reduction in damage, 8% increase in DPS, and 8% increase in healing recieved, along with 25% more hp than using STR accessories. If you're a DK, this increase in HP boosts the mitigation provided by TBN by 25% as well. This of course is assuming 2k in Tenacity. When looking at the gear it looks to be really easy to get there as most pieces have it.

If you use STR accessories you gain 15% dps but lose 25% of your HP. You get no additional mitigation, and do not receive any additional healing

I'll take the other bonuses for a 7% loss in DPS.

[Kosmos992k]

Why not the median? 4%

You're looking at 8% reduction in damage, 8% increase in DPS, and 8% increase in healing recieved, along with 25% more hp than using STR accessories. If you're a DK, this increase in HP boosts the mitigation provided by TBN by 25% as well. This of course is assuming 2k in Tenacity. When looking at the gear it looks to be really easy to get there as most pieces have it.

If you use STR accessories you gain 15% dps but lose 25% of your HP. You get no additional mitigation, and do not receive any additional healing

I'll take the other bonuses for a 7% loss in DPS.

Sure, the median will work, I just didn't like the iea of the best possible case being spoken of as *the* way it is, people have a habit of taking such numbers and running with them. As it happens I agree that stacking tanking accessories with tenacity and where I can't meld Tenacity, Direct Hit, Critical Hit and Determination. The multi-faceted nature of what Tenacity offers outweighs simple STR stacking for me, though I wish that it's impact was a little more visible than it is right now. Since Determination is also meant to affect more than one thing, I would prefer to stack it after tenacity and then direct Hit and Critical Hit.

[BlackironTarkus]

So, if we assume the higher end, Tenacity provide the following boost of 5% per 1k: 5% reduction in ALL damage (magic or otherwise), 5% increase in ALL damage done, and a 5% increase in ALL healing received.

Add in melds to both left and right side for tenacity and you're easily exceeding 2k Tenacity total. On top of this, you keep your 25% larger HP pool

I don't think I'd call a 10% adjustment to ALL 3 areas to be a miniscule bonus. Hell, I'd argue that taking these increases far outweighs the, at most, 15% increase in DPS a tank does with STR accessories.

The increase to healing is only applied to self-healing done, and with 1072 Tenacity my Dark Arts abyssal drain still only drains 88% of it's damage dealt, so it's not augmenting life-steal type healing either.

@ 1076 tenacity (Full vit rightside)
DA-AD 1256 dealt, 1111 healed = 88.45% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 3818 dealt, 3378 healed = 88.47% lifesteal

@ 807 tenacity (2x Vit 3x STR)
DA-AD 1128 dealt, 998 healed = 88.47% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 4098 dealt, 3626 healed = 88.48% lifesteal

@ 364 base tenacity (none from gear):
DA-AD 468 dealt, 414 healed = 88.46% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 1556 dealth, 1376 healed = 88.43% lifesteal

So in 708 points of tenacity my lifesteal increased by 000%. The 0.01 - 0.05% differences I'm going to chalk up to the game's calculations, you can't tell me 0.05% differences are significant, and they even go up by 0.02 and 0.03 with 269 less tenacity. Yeah no. If it was working as advertised my lifesteal %'s should have gone up to 92.87%

Currently Tenacity has zero effect on incoming healing from anyone else, and zero effect on self healing generated by lifesteal. The only thing I've seen it increase in testing has been Paladin's self-healing with clemency.

Even at 2k Tenacity if it's boosting your overall damage by 10% and reducing damage taken by 10% you're forgetting that the loss of other useful secondaries begins to subtract from your 10% damage increase.

[Kosmos992k]

Currently Tenacity has zero effect on incoming healing from anyone else, and zero effect on self healing generated by lifesteal. The only thing I've seen it increase in testing has been Paladin's self-healing with clemency.

Seems like the simple fix - make the impact of Tenacity affect all types of self healing, whether it be spell, trait, ability based on damage done or lifestealing. No reason for it to be otherwise - although if Tenacity also buffs the outdoing damage, there is in effect a double dip, but the amount is small enough to be ignored.

[Klongol]

The increase to healing is only applied to self-healing done

In researching this specifically, there is a thought out there that the healing portion of Tenacity is broken, and the only increase in healing comes from the increase in damage dealt due to Tenacity itself. That would suck, but maybe we'll see a fix in 4.05

Honestly, I'd still take the % damage done and taken along with HP's over the DPS

I won't comment on stat weights and picking one over another right now because in truth, nobody knows the true figures on everything to see which is better in the long run for damage.

[RyuujinZERO]

Why not the median? 4%

You're looking at 8% reduction in damage, 8% increase in DPS, and 8% increase in healing recieved, along with 25% more hp than using STR accessories

The accessories, at best, melded optimally, give ~400 tenacity, that's closer to 1-2% not 8%, where'd you get that maths from :P

[YitharV2]

It's how SOME players have fun, and the argument that i bolded is literally grasping for straws. The 100-200 extra dps for a tank to wear str accessories MAY push the boss before 1 tankbuster.

Yes, I'm very aware that some players think tanks should just "tank" because FFXIV babies them so they don't have to optimize DPS to hold aggro when in most other MMOs they'd actually have to optimize DPS to hold aggro.

Even if it is one tankbuster, that's still one tankbuster not needed to take and thus mitigation. Of course DPS is a team effort. Still, even though tank DPS is not as high as real DPS, it does contribute to the overall killing time, whether that be a few seconds or not. And sometimes it can mean hitting enrage or not depending on the party. That's also mitigation.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Another factor to keep in mind regarding Tenacity is it only benefits the active tank. This means it loses all value relative to its secondary stat counterparts if you're off-tanking. Since tanks should swap at least a few times, the diminishing returns are that much higher whereas Crit and Direct Hit always benefit you no matter what you're doing.

[Atmora]

The problem is while you think it is BiS healers are seeing you health tank which causes us to have to stop our DPS (which from what i understand is better than yours) which then makes everything take longer killing the point of taking STR gear.

Once again, that just means you're bad at the game. Before you criticize STR Tanks why don't you work on your own fundamental flaws you just outed yourself for?

The difference between a tank using their melds wisely and stacking Tenacity -their tanking statistic, vs a tank who tries another method

It's not wise to do something that's just objectively inferior, it's just stupid.