From one tank to other tanks..STR Gear is not a thing anymore..Get used to it now!

[RyuujinZERO]

this is what I do know. As a healer I always know right away when a tank is wearing STR accessories because it feels like I am healing a dragoon rather than a tank

It gets pretty annoying spamming cure 2 because his/her HP pool drops 90% every .4 seconds (it seems). It's pretty crazy.

Strictly speaking their HP is dropping no faster than their heavily VIT'd counterpart, they just have a smaller HP bar, which makes it seem more alarming (Assuming their HP bar is at least big enough that you are not over-healing them).

If the same tank had more VIT, you'd have to spam just as many spells to prevent them from dying, you'd just have a bigger window between them taking the first hit, and them dying.

[Annah]

Strictly speaking their HP is dropping no faster than their heavily VIT'd counterpart, they just have a smaller HP bar, which makes it seem more alarming (Assuming their HP bar is at least big enough that you are not over-healing them).

If the same tank had more VIT, you'd have to spam just as many spells to prevent them from dying, you'd just have a bigger window between them taking the first hit, and them dying.

oh i absolutely notice when a tank has STR. Trust me. 100% of all the tanks I examine when I feel like Im healing a glass cannon ALWAYS had STR accessories on

The tanks that dont drop like a rock in a pond always have normal accessories for their class on. And we always DPS and clear so much faster too (per my reasoning above). I'm just personally happy they made it so tanks cant wear it past the further levels.

[RyuujinZERO]

oh i absolutely notice when a tank has STR. Trust me. 100% of all the tanks I examine when I feel like Im healing a glass cannon ALWAYS had STR accessories on

I'm not saying you wouldn't notice, like I said, it feels alarming because their bar goes down faster, because the bar is a measurement in percent, not absolute HP. What I'm saying is the amount of HP they are losing from one moment to the next is identical to their better VIT'd bretheren.

Provided they don't have so little HP that they die too fast for the healer to finish casting, so little HP that the heals they do get are over-healing and being wasted, or so little HP they can't survive a mechanic or tank buster without a margin of safety, they require no more healing than the next tank.

(Incidentally the difference between full STR, and full VIT accessories is about 25% HP - at iLvl290, ~30k Vs 40k HP, so while noticeable they should not feel like healing a glass cannon)

[Annah]

I'm not saying you wouldn't notice, like I said, it feels alarming because their bar goes down faster, because the bar is a measurement in percent, not absolute HP. What I'm saying is the amount of HP they are losing from one moment to the next is identical to their better VIT'd bretheren.

Provided they don't have so little HP that they die too fast for the healer to finish casting, so little HP that the heals they do get are over-healing and being wasted, or so little HP they can't survive a mechanic or tank buster without a margin of safety, they require no more healing than the next tank.

when a tank buster brings them down to 5% health rather than 45% health no amount of calculations will tell me STR is better. Sorry.

As a white mage, i can tell a remarkable improvement with tanks who wear tank gear. And I can definitely tell when a tank is a "i want to really be a dps person" because their health drops faster than the 1929 Stock Market

By your defending this..I assume you wear STR accessories? I mean you can certainly do what you want but i'm telling ya, your healers were probably stressing out quite often

[RyuujinZERO]

when a tank buster brings them down to 5% health rather than 45% health no amount of calculations will tell me STR is better.

If they brought so much STR gear a tank buster took them to 5% then they sacrificed a dangerously large about of VIT and I would slap them myself if I were present <.<

Responsible STR usage means knowing the content you are dealing with and your healer's capabilities and tweaking accordingly. I would not sanction replacing your entire right side with STR jewellery outside of very specific scenarios; refer to my post on page 1 of the thread; VIT/STR is a balance to be struck; too much VIT and you're wasting the healer's time by making them heal you more. Too much STR, and you are likely to make the healer's hair go grey before the dungeon is out... if you survive at all

[Gyson]

If they brought so much STR gear a tank buster took them to 5% then they sacrificed a dangerously large about of VIT and I would slap them myself if I were present <.<

Responsible STR usage means knowing the content you are dealing with and your healer's capabilities and tweaking accordingly. I would not sanction replacing your entire right side with STR jewellery outside of very specific scenarios; refer to my post on page 1 of the thread; VIT/STR is a balance to be struck; too much VIT and you're wasting the healer's time by making them heal you more. Too much STR, and you are likely to make the healer's hair go grey before the dungeon is out... if you survive at all

Wait.. are we going to pretend that in a random PUG environment all (or even most) tanks micromanage their STR accessories to competently balance out the risks? All the more amazing when they don't even know the capabilities of the crew they've been randomly paired with.

Because I'm having a difficult time believing that. My experience in PUGs is that most tanks don't even want to tank.

The problem with the STR argument is that on paper it sounds reasonable. And in static groups it even works in practice. But static groups aren't complaining about their STR-wearing tanks.. the players who have to deal with them in PUG environments are.

It's entirely understandable to me why a team of random people would prefer a tank who doesn't almost die with every serious hit (versus one who does). The extra minute or so the strength tank is shaving off the ~20 minute dungeon run is not worth the constant heart attacks. And if even a single wipe happens, then it really wasn't worth it at all.

[SinisterJoints]

If they brought so much STR gear a tank buster took them to 5% then they sacrificed a dangerously large about of VIT and I would slap them myself if I were present <.<

well, 120vit per right side accessory adds up....a lot

[Singularity]

when a tank buster brings them down to 5% health rather than 45% health no amount of calculations will tell me STR is better. Sorry.

Why does it matter whether they are at 5% or 45% though? They're still alive either way, and the absolute number of HP they need restored to be at full is the same.
So what is that extra 40% HP doing? well, you can think of it as one or two heals you don't have to cast over the course of the encounter, but if you put that time towards healer damage instead, you'll almost certainly add less party DPS than the tank wearing STR would (possibly an exception for a Holy or Gravity on a large number of targets in a short encounter)

As a white mage, i can tell a remarkable improvement with tanks who wear tank gear. And I can definitely tell when a tank is a "i want to really be a dps person" because their health drops faster than the 1929 Stock Market

If they "want to be a DPS", then they are most likely not using their cooldowns very well. That is why their HP is dropping faster, remember, VIT does nothing to reduce incoming damage at all.

it has nothing to do with how I want them to play. Every possible bit of evidence clearly shows that tanks are suppose to wear Vitality gear....not STR! They even stated that in patch 3.05 that all STR based accessories are going to be locked out from tanks....so when SE is saying and doing these things....how is that solely my opinion?

The thing is - we're not bound to do what SE intends at all. SE set the rules of the game, anything we do within those rules is fair play. If SE doesn't like the way we as a playerbase play the game, it is within their purview to change the rules, but until and unless they do, their intentions have no binding hold over us whatsoever.

[Zephyr]

Why does it matter whether they are at 5% or 45% though? They're still alive either way, and the absolute number of HP they need restored to be at full is the same.
So what is that extra 40% HP doing? well, you can think of it as one or two heals you don't have to cast over the course of the encounter, but if you put that time towards healer damage instead, you'll almost certainly add less party DPS than the tank wearing STR would (possibly an exception for a Holy or Gravity on a large number of targets in a short encounter)

The crit auto attack that comes at the same time as the tank buster that wipes said 5% and kills the tank. It's also the difference of your healer being able to heal up as needed or panicking over a tank with hardly any HP

[Atmora]

oh i absolutely notice when a tank has STR. Trust me. 100% of all the tanks I examine when I feel like Im healing a glass cannon ALWAYS had STR accessories on

The tanks that dont drop like a rock in a pond always have normal accessories for their class on. And we always DPS and clear so much faster too (per my reasoning above). I'm just personally happy they made it so tanks cant wear it past the further levels.

A good healer can do well over 1500 DPS while healing a full STR Tank, that's just an issue with your personal skill.