From one tank to other tanks..STR Gear is not a thing anymore..Get used to it now!

[Annah]

I'm not saying you wouldn't notice, like I said, it feels alarming because their bar goes down faster, because the bar is a measurement in percent, not absolute HP. What I'm saying is the amount of HP they are losing from one moment to the next is identical to their better VIT'd bretheren.

Provided they don't have so little HP that they die too fast for the healer to finish casting, so little HP that the heals they do get are over-healing and being wasted, or so little HP they can't survive a mechanic or tank buster without a margin of safety, they require no more healing than the next tank.

when a tank buster brings them down to 5% health rather than 45% health no amount of calculations will tell me STR is better. Sorry.

As a white mage, i can tell a remarkable improvement with tanks who wear tank gear. And I can definitely tell when a tank is a "i want to really be a dps person" because their health drops faster than the 1929 Stock Market

By your defending this..I assume you wear STR accessories? I mean you can certainly do what you want but i'm telling ya, your healers were probably stressing out quite often

[Atmora]

oh i absolutely notice when a tank has STR. Trust me. 100% of all the tanks I examine when I feel like Im healing a glass cannon ALWAYS had STR accessories on

The tanks that dont drop like a rock in a pond always have normal accessories for their class on. And we always DPS and clear so much faster too (per my reasoning above). I'm just personally happy they made it so tanks cant wear it past the further levels.

A good healer can do well over 1500 DPS while healing a full STR Tank, that's just an issue with your personal skill.

[Coatl]

this is what I do know. As a healer I always know right away when a tank is wearing STR accessories because it feels like I am healing a dragoon rather than a tank

I don't really wear STR accessories in a dungeon. I don't really see the point besides if you want your healer to grow a few grey hairs. A lot of bosses however you wouldn't really notice if the tank was wearing STR or VIT, as they deal very little tank damage.

[Annah]

I don't really wear STR accessories in a dungeon. I don't really see the point besides if you want your healer to grow a few grey hairs. A lot of bosses however you wouldn't really notice if the tank was wearing STR or VIT, as they deal very little tank damage.

and the healers love you for it lol

[Venjenz]

I also noticed, tanks who are in actual tank gear, we drop the mobs faster because I am part of the DPS team too. Pop spell length cool down, thin air?, and spam the hell out of holy...a whm can out dps any tank with STR any day. We can wipe the board with the two other dps when a tank is a tank. (and the most health the tank will ever lose with me during this entire process is probably 25-30% MAX).

The hidden calculation that the defenders of wearing i270 STR gear don't seem to ever consider. Parsing logs for existing Ex fights, and then adjusting for 4 man content because DPS and healers can both DPS easier, the two DPS jobs would be ~65% of overall DPS, and tanks and healers would be close to an even split. This adjustment occurs because in normal 4 man content, no way the healers are as stressed on heals as they are in 8 man Ex, and there is no OT doing their best DPS-only thing.

So basically, they are both about ~17% of overall DPS. Now, for which job would making their DPS easier add the most NET benefit to the entire team? Is it the tank who gets 5-15% more dmg per button press, thus adding 1-3% overall dmg, or is it the healer who now gets to press a "does DPS" button versus a "does not do DPS" button? Does my boosted Decimate hitting for 15-40 extra potency outweigh that extra Holy the WHM casts that take them from 0 potency to 100-200 for that GCD?

Remember - the tank is hitting those buttons ANYWAY. A healer chooses between the heal buttons or DPS as the situation demands. If the tank chooses straight VIT-tankiness, they do indeed lower their personal share of the overall DPS, but in doing so have enabled to the healer to substantially increase their DPS while also making their healing job easier. They now get to choose the DPS button more often than the healing button, taking more button presses from 0 to 200+ potency.

All that said, even if the DPS gain/loss was a net wash (tank DPS decrease exactly offsets healer DPS increase), the survival chance and "smoothness" of the dungeon/trial went up substantially. Not every healer is created equal, nor are all parties where things liking standing in bad, positioning, knowing the fight, etc are concerned. In such a world of uncertainty, it makes more sense for the tank to play to the average and go straight tanky than it does to figure that the other members who you can't pick ahead of time will be geared and skilled enough to let you tank with a reduced EHP pool and focused on DPS instead of taking beatings.

Everyone pays their own sub and I get that, but a lot of "blame the healer" rants are a result of the tank deciding they will play the way they want, and damn that healer for not playing in a way that supports that choice!! Not everyone tanks/gears like me, but hearing it from a healer makes me satisfied that my "VIT-tank 1st, all else 2nd" approach has merit. I just know that I don't seem have the shortage of good healers I read about on the forums. In the game I play, there's proper healers everywhere.

people keep sayin this but I have never seen healers out dps a tank never seen one parse where a healer out dps a tank so why to people continue to say ths

Most parses you see are for 8/24 person content. In that content, healers are far more stressed than they are in normal 4 man stuff, but there is a point not to be missed there - the healers are more stressed on heals. Referring to above - even if the DPS gain/loss exactly balances out with tanks being super tanky, the survivability of the entire group goes up because the tanks are tankier. If you consider the gain/loss of DPS by healers when tanks gain/lose survivability, at best a tank going banzai STR is going to add a net 1-2% DPS to the overall equation. If they go super VIT-tanky, they likewise only lose about 1-2% overall team DPS, but have significantly added to overall team survival, i.e. success.

[Agrios]

I just hit 70 but made sure to buy the "BiS" STR right side items when I read that "good" tanks needed to use them. With that said, I have a VIT set up and a STR set up and I try to ask the heals what they prefer. I tend to adapt and enjoy playing as a bulwark and a stabby tank all the same. I find that I VIT for most pugs but STR it up when I'm with FC healers who can hack it. I'm alright with either or. /shrug

[Hioki]

True story. STR Tanking is a thing again. It's dumb, but it's a thing again until SE provides a fix. Until then, make proper use of CD's and swap pieces as necessary if your df healer is undergeared/skilled.

[Annah]

True story. STR Tanking is a thing again. It's dumb, but it's a thing again until SE provides a fix. Until then, make proper use of CD's and swap pieces as necessary if your df healer is undergeared/skilled.

even with the best geared healer, not much you can do when an Omega "boss" pops a tank buster and it one shots the tank because they're sporting STR 270 gear. (yup, i've seen this happen too. Not as much, thank God, but I have seen it).

Honestly, it feels like some tanks "found a way to get around the system with STR" but in actuality it makes them poorer tanks when they think it makes them better tanks. I mean I guess it makes sense, they're in a dungeon doing their thing...but they don't see the healer in the background spamming heals like it's going out of style just to keep them alive.

[RyuujinZERO]

Honestly, it feels like some tanks "found a way to get around the system with STR" but in actuality it makes them poorer tanks when they think it makes them better tanks. I mean I guess it makes sense, they're in a dungeon doing their thing...but they don't see the healer in the background spamming heals like it's going out of style just to keep them alive.

Death and Taxes syndrome, it happens in every game. Some group of experienced players find a 'better' way of doing things (often the difference is just a handful of percent in performance), that require a higher skill floor to execute, players read 'This way is better' and read into it as 'If you're NOT doing it this way, you are trash tier'. Suddenly every sprout and his minion is trying to jump into the deep end and making a huge mess of it.

Wait.. are we going to pretend that in a random PUG environment all (or even most) tanks micromanage their STR accessories to competently balance out the risks? All the more amazing when they don't even know the capabilities of the crew they've been randomly paired with.

I'm saying that if someone is going to start messing with STR/VIT trade-offs, they'd better know what the hell they're doing and do it right. See my above comment.

My post on the front page and discussion of the topic is written on the basis that people know what they are doing. If Johnny Rando throws on a full set of STR jewellery and plows his face into Susano EX's sword that ain't on me - Because my advice was to balance your stats. If in doubt, err on the side of caution and lean towards VIT, not STR; failsafe, not faildangerous

[EdwinLi]

I'm saying that if someone is going to start messing with STR/VIT trade-offs, they'd better know what the hell they're doing and do it right. See my above comment.

While ideal to always know what they're getting into that a not quite the mentality of the newer and more "sheep" following tank players who only make the tank STR because they "heard from someone" or "this source say so".

It gets annoying when the "Sheep" tanks only go STR because they were told it is better and ignore all suggestion that it is better to balance between VIT/STR accessories if they're going into a DF random group since no one know the skill level they may get from other teams and their only response to sticking with pure STR Accessory is "this source proves I am right" and "the forums disussion say other wise".

There are more "Sheep" tanks than people believe

("sheep" are what I call players that only follow a certain trend because they saw others do so or because they are told to do so without knowing the full aspect of both benefits and consequences. They don't really play for themselves but play becuase it is the "big thing" right now before following the herd to the next new "big thing")