Idea for a New Expansion: Gaius van Baelsar lives... and he needs your help

[Kyran-Varlsen]

I have a pet theory that Gaius van Baelsar did not actually die at the end of the story for FF14 A Realm Reborn.

We all saw him lament his fate and blow up right? Well, we saw him and then we saw some explosions around him. People have survived far, far worse damage and near death in many cutscenes since then. Also Nero, ever loyal, could have swooped in on his red magiteck armor and flown off with Gaius van Baelsar unconscious but very much alive.

So he could have survived. Because just about anything is possible (Hildibrand Storyline!). But why stay out of sight and play dead? Imperial politics. There was a war of succession shortly after when the first Garlean Emperor died. It is likely that his grandson, Varis zos Galvus, is no friend of van Baelsar. In fact, it is likely that van Baelsar wished to take over Eorzea with the use of the Ultima Weapon in an attempt to amass enough power to secure the throne for himself.

The big thing about all this is Nero. One moment he is a topnotch Garlean techlord and the next thing he is a “free agent.” A man with his knowledge and skill should have had his pick of posts in the Empire. Why stick around people he considers primitive? Because the man he is still loyal to is still alive. And ordering him to get close to those around the Warrior of Light.
But anyway, van Baelsar is in a bad place right now. It is also likely that any remaining members of his Household back home are not doing so well either. If you ever saw the HBO series Rome you know how important household politics are to pseudo-medieval military leaders. So he has an incentive to care about not dyeing or just disappearing altogether.

So my idea for a new Expansion title: Rise of the Blackwolf or maybe Wolfcrown

- Basically something dramatic happens, let’s say Emperor Varis zos Galvus imprisons van Baelsar’s daughter and plans to kill her. Because he is evil. And reasons.
- van Baelsar decides now would be a good time to press his claim to the throne (pulls out important document saying so).
- But at best van Baelsar has only a few allies in the Empire and some loyal 14th Legionaries that were left after all was said and done.
- So Gaius van Baelsar turns to the one person who can be counted on to defeat the Garleans in any fight: you.

Now, why should we work with this guy? Even if we respect him, the man has a pretty bad record dating back to his treatment of Ala Mhigans while Viceroy up to the time he attacked and imprisoned the Scions.

Three Reasons:
1. Emperor Varis zos Galvus is out for you because he at least needs to show that he won’t take his son’s death lying down. While Zenos may have mattered little to his father, the Warrior of Light will not rest easy whilst the father lives. You have been marked for death, with a very large reward on your head.
2. Gaius van Baelsar will promise to halt the expansion of the Empire while he is Emperor. This might actually mean very little, and he could be lying. He is probably lying.
3. The big one: Gaius van Baelsar will mention that Varis zos Galvus is in league with the Ascian Elidibus. And they are almost done with something... nasty.

So how do we kick off this unexpected partnership? Lead the 14th Legionnaires loyal to van Baelsar to Azys La, board the imperial Dreadnaught still stationed there and then commandeer the vessel as the new base of operation for the Blackwolf. There is an Aetheryte installed on the ship that will allow other adventurers to join Gaius van Baelsar as mercenaries under the 14th Legion. But as the genuine Warrior of Light, you will take your place as a General. Legate Gaius van Baelsar will return home at the head of a motley army of legionaries and mercenaries with you at his side. The Second Imperial Civil War begins in earnest!

- Basically Gaius van Baelsar pulls an Illidan Stormrage (WoW reference) and we see eye-to-eye with him long enough to get in some new content.

Now what would this content bring to the table for FF14?
1. Explore the Garlean Empire and walk through its cities. Captured areas that fall under the control of the 14th legion will be open to you, as will areas outside provided you have forged the needed paperwork.
2. A story featuring the Garleans and who they are as a people. You will also come into conflict with your friends and allies who are utterly opposed to any work with the Garleans. Juicy!
3. Get to wear cool looking Garlean armor custom made for 14th Legion Rebels.
4. A moral choice system for each player to decide who will sit the Throne of Garlemand.
5. Possibly bring peace to the realm by installing an ally as Emperor, forestalling further Imperial invasions. An easy fix for meta content is that the 14th legion stragglers left in Eorzea had refused to follow Van Baelsar and are now rebels in the wild.

[Anonymoose]

"Of course Anonymoose was the first to reply." Guilty. (^^')7

I'm a big #BlackWolfLives supporter, so you'll hear few qualms from me. Still, I'm kind of just howling into the wind, here. I'm offering little more than my own subjective critique and musing (way more than) a little in that vein.

My take (which I don't necessarily feel to be actually worth anything):
Much of this I've said before; it's just cleaned up and presented as a whole here.

Gaius was introduced as a big-name antagonist, an event which was essentially: "Meet Judge Vader."

As we've seen since A Realm Reborn, big bads die in their base game. However, 1.0 got torn down and scrapped for parts to rebuild into A Realm Reborn, which had a different plot trajectory using the same roots. The Seventh Umbral Rising scenario began, and Gaius was put on hold to be killed in 2.0. In the meantime, 1.0 was assigned a new big bad: Nael van Darnus.

This created a few hiccups, imho, but let's focus on three:

Gaius had already been introduced with a fearsome backstory. He was supposed to feel unstoppable; the conqueror of five enemy cities, the slayer of nine would-be usurpers to the crown. Strength, foresight, tactical mastermind. He embodied this well in effortlessly thwarting the Ala Mhigan Resistance plot and fighting off four Archons. More than that, he was up front about his mission: He was here to exterminate primals and bring order (in brutal black and white). He cared about one thing: what's best for the Empire. The way he was put on hold, through the butterfly effect, would subtly undermine every bit of that, imho.

Also, in using him to give context and clarity to the threat of Nael van Darnus, and making him subservient to the madman, they made Gaius seem reasonable and even sympathetic. He impotently railed against Darnus's plan as an abomination. Even as an enemy of freedom who slaughtered over-generalized groups, he showed a clear desire to do what he thought was best for people and the world. Authoritarian? Yes. Misguided? Yes. But evil? People (just me...?) loved seeing this fallen badass reclaim his spine and principles, even if his cooperation with us was incidental - a fair-weather friend.

Finally, when things go according to plan, big bads have their own little box and get rotated into and back out of the plot relatively quickly. By virtue of his role in 1.0 as part of his plot stasis, he had two to three times the presences of every other villain barring perhaps Lahabrea or Elidibus. It's hard to wash your hands clean of the first emblematic identity to begin with; this amplified that challenge.

Before 2.0, there are a few adjustments to the status quo. Gaius had already fallen from the Emperor's favor with his unforeseeable failure at Silvertear Skies (leading to his eventual assignment as Darnus's lapdog). As Solus grows infirm without a clear successor, internal conflict looms: the son of Solus's eldest son (Varis) versus Solus's second-eldest son (name unknown). Varis forbids Gaius to take Eorzea during this time, but it's unfinished business and his last opportunity to regain his status. Even more, if the Empire falls into disarray, someone getting results is going to look best. This desperation becomes Gaius's weakness, and he lends his ear to the Ascian Lahabrea in exchange for the power to manifest this invasion - the power to annihilate primals. This alone is not so inconsistent (but for the fact that he'd just found his strength by throwing Darnus to the Alliance, but that come with no guarantees).

After 2.0 and Gaius's defeat, we get more adjustments to the status quo. Varis and the Ivy are given credit for both Gaius's initial success in raising castrums in every corner of the realm and the erosion of his foothold out from under him, eventually allowing Operation Archon to succeed. Eventually, his behavior is used put Zenos and the XIIth Legion in context, as well ... and again it makes him look better on the curve.

Look at where that puts Gaius van Baelsar in retrospect: he was all bark and no bite. We didn't see the man who sacked cities and slew pretenders. We saw the guy who leans on powers he doesn't understand. We saw the guy who gets suckered by Ascians and undermined by his own boss. We saw Judge Vader embrace his failure and explode in a story arc whose theme was rebirth from the ashes.

In my humble (and perhaps mistaken) opinion, if it all ends there, Gaius van Baelsar dies a fraud. Do these actions not actions undermine everything he claimed to stand for? The emperor's mission, the salvation of the world, the meritocratic thriving of his subjects - everything is second to and pretext for clinging tight to his own status and legacy above all else. To me, it just doesn't fit. On one hand, since when is life orderly and sensible? Life's narrative only makes sense when you force it into the box. On the other hand, this kind of is a narrative, and the Black Wolf fell through one of its admirably few cracks.

My question is: Is that really how the man who wears the number XIV goes down?

Poetically, the plot affords a strange opportunity. Varis talks the talk, but he is incompatible with Solus's vision. He turned a blind eye to his son mistreating his subjects, to abhorrent experiments on his own people, to merging his soul with a primal. Varis himself not only condones these actions, he loses territory, allows and even breeds rebellion, and seeks to use primals rather than outright destroy them, even if he claims that is his ultimate goal. And now he consorts with the Elidibus, the arbitrator of Zodiark who kept Lahabrea in line and worked in concert with his machinations.

There is perhaps room in the plot for Gaius to return, and goals that he could pursue that are perhaps entirely consistent with what his character was meant to be. What's more, these actions would require him to fill the very role he was best received in (by just me...?) : Public Frenemy #1.

In the end, how does the man who wears the number XIV go down?

The only problem: Naoki Yoshida all but admitted Gaius was dead in 2014 when he discussed how plans were on the table for a harder version of the fight against him, but it fell through the cracks. He said that the dead should stay dead, so if we saw him again, it would be in a form we didn't expect. Since then, however, I admit that I question his commitment to Sparkle Motion the dead staying dead. It's clearly more of a guideline than a rule. A guy who was still standing when the camera cut away mid-explosion is far and away not the deadest dead person in the game. (But ... I mean ... probably still pretty dead.)

That said, invoking that and bringing him back for any reason but to iron out his character is a mistake.

It can get worse than this. It can get a lot worse.

Still ... having him come out of nowhere hoping to take on a misguided corruption of his beloved Empire? To revenge himself on Varis in the process? Even if he dies trying (with his dignity) after a few badass cutscenes and leaves the Warrior of Light with an opening, count me in.

For starters, he could try to take power in Ala Mhigo, after how much he's invested into it. The shite is clearly about to hit the fan there.

(Feels good getting that all off my chest in one place, lol.)

[Theodric]

Well, as far as my opinion on the matter goes?

Gaius and Regula both had redeeming qualities and each earned quite the fan following. I frequently see people voicing their support for Garlemald in various chat channels on Balmung as well as other forms of FFXIV related media. Just the other day, for instance, this happened without warning:

For context, people were honouring Regula and Gaius. The crowd got even bigger as the evening advanced.

Now, where am I going with this? There's definitely a decent chunk of players who desire a 'Gaius' or a 'Regula' that they can rally behind. Personally it is my hope that Varis serves such a role, though I wouldn't rule out Gaius making a return provided he didn't become another defector who turns against his people and homeland. Someone who wishes to save and preserve their power but is prepared to make compromises would be ideal. Since at the end of the day Eorzea arguably does not deserve to exist if the cost is Garlemald being wiped off of the map entirely. Thus, at some point, peace between both is ideal.

I'm also a firm advocate of death being final but at the same time the developers have made it clear that death in this setting isn't necessarily final and that they're more than willing to expand on a character's role if there's a lot of people desiring such a thing. It happened with Edda, after all.

Though ultimately we don't need Regula or Gaius to come back from the dead. We just need someone similar to them to show up serve as a bridge between Eorzea and Garlemald. Something akin to Larsa from FFXII would be pretty neat...and part of me is hoping we'll meet someone like that as of 4.1 as FFXII - The Zodiac Age will be fresh in a lot of people's minds by that point.

[Anonymoose]

Though ultimately we don't need Regula or Gaius to come back from the dead. We just need someone similar to them to show up serve as a bridge between Eorzea and Garlemald. Something akin to Larsa from FFXII would be pretty neat...and part of me is hoping we'll meet someone like that as of 4.1 as FFXII - The Zodiac Age will be fresh in a lot of people's minds by that point.

Even if Gaius came back, I think I'd support a new Larsa-like figure, anyway.

As things are now, he doesn't feel any better on the Garlean throne than he does in grave. Some bells can't be unrung.

In my own little mental best case scenario, it's both. Varis is tainted by [letting Zenos get as bad as it did | repeating Allag's primal mistakes | lending his ear to the Emissary of Zodiark], our new Larsa figure is introduced in the background (perhaps a young member of a Royal Family's side branch, perhaps the legatus of one of those good legions we keep hearing about), Gaius returns as some kind of uncomfortable free agent and puts all of his energies into dealing a blow to Varis and dies (harder), our Larsa figure takes power and entreats the Alliance to put an end to the war, Ilsabard is preserved as a "proper" Empire and leaves the Eorzean and Othardian alliances to work out their own ends, and all remaining forces stabilize just in time to ally against whatever Elidibus hasn't told us he's working on.

It leaves a lot of room for gray - a lot of room for conflicting and even contradictory goals and points of view. And we'd probably have to go through Thavnair to bring all this together; that seems like a place people want to go, lol.

That feels like the key to making it work - the reins of history in the hands of man, flawed and tragic but ever striving to do better - but united against a more central and obviously unpreferrable end. It also leaves a lot of places for this threat to take root. I think it'd be kind of poetic if, in the end, the biggest existential threats of the Ascian arc all came back to Mor Dhona and Sharlayan.

But ... again ... just howlin' at the moon, lol.

[Mysterysword]

snip

I just want to thank you for helping me iron out the kinks in my fanfic plot for Gaius. So much.

Personally, I'd rather the dead just stay dead. Having Gaius come back after all this time would ultimately feel... cheap (no matter how much I want to speculate that Elidibus has secretly possessed his body ever since he died). But on the other hand... first Gaius, then Regula. It feels self-defeating for us to keep killing off all the Garleans who are both in power and even slightly willing to work with us, for whatever reason.

[YianKutku]

It feels self-defeating for us to keep killing off all the Garleans who are both in power and even slightly willing to work with us, for whatever reason.

It really depends on how you define "willing to work with us", I feel. Regula certainly could fit, from a reasonable point of view, but Gaius was pretty clearly using us, rather than working with us. The moment we ceased to be useful, he'd probably erase us from existence. Which is what you could call the ARR plotline, since we (or our predecessors) have done the job of neutralizing Nael van Darnus for him.

The difference is probably that the WoL could conceivably negotiate with Regula, and at least be able to talk to each other in mutual comprehension. I can't see that happening with Gaius.

Which is why I also miss him, and would be very happy to see him back. Gaius is interesting; a suitably grandiose villain to oppose, with his own well-understood and plausible motivations, yet firmly opposed to what the WoL stands for. He fits the story. While I don't have a problem with his being defeated and killed as such, the way it actually happened was... lacking.

I suppose my objections come largely from how ARR is widely considered the weakest of the three stories (ARR, HW, SB) in terms of presentation. I feel like Gaius deserves better. My wish for his return is just a faint hope that we can get a do-over.

[Fenral]

I'll admit that after reading Moose's writeup, Gaius has officially moved to #2 on my list of NPC's I want to come back. Number 1, however, will never change. (The two of them together, however, would be poetic in it's own way, but perhaps too much wish fulfillment.)

[Ramesses]

As always, the great Amelia has yet again grabbed me by the arm and (graciously?) demanded that I have a read of this thread... (thanks again). I still very rarely come to the forums anymore yet it's still weird how worked up I get every time Gaius or the Garleans are discussed with me in-game. Besides, this post will act as another minor fulfillment of my long-ago agreement to Moose that I'd chime in now and again on the Lore forums.

Similar to Moose's succinct summary above and even on other forums, we all agree that Gaius didn’t have a chance to live up to the lofty expectations that were accorded him. All the way from the promotional videos of 1.0 up to launch, he was so much of a larger than life figure whom we all found to be overwhelmingly fascinating. Rightly so… during 1.0, his resume was beyond impressive and he was indeed the Emperor’s favourite. Thus, I believe my personal gripe with his “death” is several fold:

• I had envisioned him eventually becoming Emperor and being very instrumental in future expansions. I mean, this was a chap that was the ultimate face of 1.0 when it was released back in 2010… and I remember being absolutely gob smacked when I saw his battle prowess in the Futures Perfect mission #46.
  
• The truly excellent conversations he had with Nael in the “Two Vans Are Better Than One” mission also gave me much further insight into the subtle rivalry and dichotomy in their ideals.
  
• The insightful conversation he summarily has directly with myself (see screenshot below... you guys remember that conversation with him?). He basically hands me what I need to defeat Nael, for crying out loud… and I remember thinking: I genuinely like this bad ass of a guy; he sees the ultimate big picture with unflinching clarity.

• The way he kept flying ominously over our heads during the final days prior to the Calamity… that was just incredibly sinister yet made me like him even more. All we legacy players definitely remember him doing this even while we were hastily making the Great Gobbue wall in front of Ul'Dah...

• The “I am baus” slow motion stroll with his cadre of trusted officers when he was first shown in the trailers for 2.0. You guys also remember that?

Another important factor for me was this: The fact that he directly ignored and refused an imperial order to return to Garlemald with his troops during the war of succession was just brilliance personified. I remember thinking “Hell yes, that’s just an excellent exhibition of sheer ambition! Go Gaius, go!” Just like his namesake in history (Gaius Julius Caesar), his refusal in accepting the directives from the capital made me grin happily and I thus expected him to eventually cross that damn Rubicon to take the throne.

Not to mention his stout conviction regarding the eikons and the subsequent revelation that he possessed the Ultima Weapon made me think… “Ohhh, this is getting good! He’ll get somewhat defeated at my hands and then make a prideful retreat from Eorzea and lodge himself staunchly at Ala Mhigo until we all had the galls to face him again. Time for the popcorn and wait to also see when he would march on House Galvus... perhaps only then would we have a chnace of retaking Ala Mhigo while his back is turned.”

Indeed, so many different potentials of how this tale could unfold. All this build up towards a powerful climax and then he apparently just... dies. And there’s no body nor the remnants of Ultima recovered.

I mean… really? Its almost as if the storyboard crew and script writers decided to make him...

Yes... pathetic. Which is just a sacrilege. So yes, these and several other minor issues related to the MSQ remain my personal issue with how Gaius was just tossed out of existence. Yiankutku stresses my point precisely by saying "he fits the story". Like a glove.

And here's my final reason I'm still solely disappointed with Gaius being eliminated. Back in August of 2012 there was a wonderful debate here on the forums about how Emperor Solus was this "Odin-like" character, At the time, I suddenly had an epiphany and speculated that Gaius and Nael could even be the symbolic versions of the Wolf and Raven... symbols sacred to none other than the real Odin from Norse mythology...




I was so convinced at the time that something about Solus' "mission" to purge the world of primals would eventually center around Nael and Gaius for several expansions to come. This was a chap who (very mysteriously?) got a hold of the secrets of Magitek and overnight transformed his nation into a very formidable empire... within a generation! I kept wondering what kind of "Divine" help he had while building Garlemald into a powerhouse... and began making an assessment that perhaps once he had established his Imperial army, he had selected his two (best?) generals to be his Raven and Wolf --- (alright, alright, indeed I know the Eorzean Encyclopedia establishes a wonderful backstory for Garlemald's rapid advancement, but still...)

So you can imagine how annoyed I was to watch that idea fall apart. In the end though, since its unlikely Gaius has a place to return to in this realm, I'm definitely in the camp that keeps asking yet again....

"Yoshi, when will we get our own FFXIV version of Larsa Solidor?"

[Kyran-Varlsen]

I loved the old picks from FF14 before ARR, they are a treat Ramesses

[Cilia]

...[Gaius van Baelsar] could have survived. Because just about anything is possible (Hildibrand Storyline!). But why stay out of sight and play dead? Imperial politics. There was a war of succession shortly after when the first Garlean Emperor died. It is likely that his grandson, Varis zos Galvus, is no friend of van Baelsar. In fact, it is likely that van Baelsar wished to take over Eorzea with the use of the Ultima Weapon in an attempt to amass enough power to secure the throne for himself.

The big thing about all this is Nero. One moment he is a topnotch Garlean techlord and the next thing he is a “free agent.” A man with his knowledge and skill should have had his pick of posts in the Empire. Why stick around people he considers primitive? Because the man he is still loyal to is still alive. And ordering him to get close to those around the Warrior of Light.

In typical fashion... I have to point out there are a few problems with this. (Yes, even if it's just a dream.)

-What happens during the Hildibrand story is... widely acknowledged to not adhere to the rules of reality. Cyr explicitly questions whether or not he's left the realm of logic during one of his 3.x quests.
-Varis zos Galvus' opinion on van Baelsar is unknown. Given any stragglers of the XIVth were marked for death and as far as we know Varis has not rescinded this order, I do not think he has a favorable opinion of them.
-van Baelsar explicitly states he desires to take over Eorzea because he considers its leadership impotent, and that it is right of him to do so since we cannot stop him.
-As with the rest of the XIVth, Nero is a renegade from a rogue Legion marked for death in Garlemald. That's why he doesn't return to the Empire despite expressing disdain for Eorzeans. This bit is just my personal opinion, but I do not think he was particularly loyal to Gaius either - he complained about being a distant second choice as van Baelsar's chief engineer behind Cid, despite the latter being an expatriate who deserted his homeland. (I wouldn't be particularly loyal to a boss whose attitude toward me was "You're not the best, but... ehh, I guess you'll make do. I wish I had the other guy though.")

I wouldn't mind a Garlemald expansion, but our reason for going there would have to be very well thought-out and explained. (Since it's the only bit of charted land left besides Thavnair, we're pretty much bound for it next.) Garlemald itself could easily be classified as Lawful Evil, so there'd need to be a dramatic shift or change in their social and political systems for us to head there under any terms but hostile. I refrain from dealing in "What if?"s and possibilities as well, since there are simply too many to account for them all.

I question how we're going to Garlemald and whether or not it's under hostile terms. We'll find out in, what...? A year and a half? Two years? We think, maybe? Until then, I'll continue to weeb out with my katana that glows when I draw it (and/or they make DRK fun to play again).

If any extant character were to serve as our bridge to Garlemald, I would have preferred van Hydrus over van Baelsar. He seemed to be catching on to the idea that, for all their power and grandeur, the Allagans fell for a reason - so why emulate them? Unfortunately he died, and I accept that.