Are the lvl70 MNK's having fun?

[Brownondorf]

No i'm not. Its far from being as fun as it was in Heavensward.

RoF speed penalty is extremely stupid.
RoE is rarely a good idea and is in total conflict with Tornado Kick.
Shoulder tackle with earth fist... you are a melee with no ranged attack, WHY WOULD YOU PUSH A MOB AWAY?
I still haven't found a use for shoulder tackle with fist of wind but whatever, maybe it will one day.
Brotherhood would be fine if it affected EVERYONE.
the removal of 2 of our Dots make the gameplay boring.

There's only TWO thing i like with the new monk. 16 seconds GL and pretty much never having TP issue.

[MomoOG]

I did actually already jump ship to Samurai, i think i stated it in another thread. My posts are not to discourage people from playing the job or anything or the sort. But more to show that we do have problems and lost our job identity in the shift to 4.0. I still love monk, but i disagree with the direction they've taken it in gameplay wise. Monk is by no means bad by numbers, when I do play it iregularly get 95+% but from my experience it is in no way as fun at it used to be and the slowdown from RoF is a contributing factor to this. And brotherhood is not worth me changing back from Samurai to monk. for my composition it's roughly a 0.87~ raid dps gain for me to go Monk instead of samurai. but that still doesn't work out better than what I can pull on Samurai. The ONLY way Monk will ever balance things out with it's utility is if the job doesn't suffer so brutally from phase changes and Brotherhood affects the whole raid, not just physical. In a fight with no downtime I 100% believe that a Monk and it's utility will outdo a samurai. As it should do. But any fight a monk is forced to lose GL3 The samurai's pure dps will out do it and the utility it brought. In casual content Monk is perfectly fine. But my experiences are strictly from raid/extreme perspectives because that's where real balance and viability should come in.

I don't expect any groundbreaking changes to monk. But things like the slowdown from Riddle of Fire being reduced to either 5% instead of 15% and the damage scaled back to 20% instead of 30% would at least help a little. I mean ideally i don't want any slowdown but if i have to compromise I'd rather have less damage % buff and remain faster. than have more damage and be even slower because Monk doesn't feel good being so slow. that's just an example and something they could do with numbers. Brotherhood is another thing they can easily change to affec the whole raid. I'm not asking for an overhaul but I am asking for our job identity back and to not be the clunky mess it feels like right now.

To summarize:
Monk's DPS is perfectly fine, but it's utility needs to not be so restricting to physical. RoF needs %changes on the speed and damage to balance things out to not make us so slow. PB needs to have a reduced CD 90s maybe or RoE should instantly refresh GL timer upon use. Those are the quick fixes i'd make to monk as of right now just to make it play better.

Sorry I disagree with your RoF suggestion changes. RoF only slows down weapon skills. Has no affect on attack speed for auto attacks (they still are affected by GL3) and OGC skills obviously don't even get affected by speed. Beyond that, I actually like having the occasional speed slow down. It adds some variety to the rotation including double weaving of OGC skills. With the loss of our dots and removing the occasional slow down from RoF the rotation would be even more simple/boring. I don't simply play monk because it has to attacks fast at all times. I play it because I love the lore of hand to hand specialist.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

snip

Thats why i said to adjust % appropriately. I already know the slowdown does not affect auto attacks. Double weaving is nothing special and seems like the only reason they gave it a slow gcd was to allow us to double weave in TFC procs we get. Which is 2-3 per brotherhood and RoF on a good day. There is no real reason other than those brief periods to be slow however. You may find it a bit of a breather to have the slowdown. But coming from 4 years playing monk and min maxing it in raids and extremes, the slowdown is horrible and unnecessary imo and im not sure how slowing down a 6 button rotation makes it more interesting. But thats just personal preference. To each his own

[MomoOG]

Thats why i said to adjust % appropriately. I already know the slowdown does not affect auto attacks. Double weaving is nothing special and seems like the only reason they gave it a slow gcd was to allow us to double weave in TFC procs we get. Which is 2-3 per brotherhood and RoF on a good day. There is no real reason other than those brief periods to be slow however. You may find it a bit of a breather to have the slowdown. But coming from 4 years playing monk and min maxing it in raids and extremes, the slowdown is horrible and unnecessary imo and im not sure how slowing down a 6 button rotation makes it more interesting. But thats just personal preference. To each his own

Except I don't find your % appropriate. They will be a dps loss.

I never said I needed a breather. I've min/maxed MNK as well. Don't try and twist the word . Mnk rotation has never been hard in any previous content.

To each their own indeed.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Except I don't find your % appropriate. They will be a dps loss.

I never said I needed a breather. I've min/maxed MNK as well. Don't try and twist the word . Mnk rotation has never been hard in any previous content.

To each their own indeed.

It was a ballpark figure to emphasize the point that i'd rather have our weapon skill speed returned and the damage % would be adjusted to make it so it's still the same dps gain for us.

You said removing the slowdown would make it boring/simpler. My response is how is the slowdown making it more interesting for you? All it does is make it so you refresh demo and clip it after 1 snap punch

[ShellShaka]

MNK is more or less the same to me. Not a fan of RoF slow down. I wouldn't mind it so much if the skills looked more damaging animation wise similar to a Heated MCH, otherwise for me it just turns into "Hey I'm doing the same thing before, but slower and more damaging even though I enjoy the class for it's nice quick flow! Yay! \o/." I find RoE fun to play around with to see where I can keep GL. Tackle Mastery is just more potency for my tackle. Brotherhood is fun if I have some other melee DPS in the party. Chance to gain chakra through different methods overall is my favorite thing out of 4.0. I wish RoF made Tornado kick free during it's duration.

[Brill_]

RoE is rarely a good idea and is in total conflict with Tornado Kick.

Why? I love this skill. Could use some tweaking.
Shinryu - use it during proximity attack before adds spawn
Susano - use it for his ultimate, start last phase with 3 stacks
D4 - use it when jumps for the proximity attack/head spawn thingy

May not use it every fight, but helps GL uptime a bunch. I'll use it as insurance, even if stacks might not fall off if there is nothing for me to attack at the moment.

[Noata]

I will list a few gripes I have. I won't pretend to understand what Monks need, we still play mostly the same. RoF nice, but took some getting used to and is crappy to get a debuff when you use a buff *not saying it is unwarranted, just I don't like apply myself with a debuff* RoE... annoying it requires a trigger after I trigger it to do what I want it to do, but none the less being versatile capable DPS we can use it in encounters. Tackle mastery... feels like useless filler because you couldn't think of anything to give us because our rotation is set on constantly shifting between six moves.

Our moves got a 10 potency reduction, Forbidden Chakra got gutted in potency... 1 Ilm punch at best is a stun we can use 30% of the time when we need it... we somehow still have a 30 potency Arm of the Destroyer that does nothing unless we are in a specific stance. They didn't alter Tornado Kick in anyway despite it almost never being worth it to use. The moves we did lose gave us DPS and kept us busy, but now they just got replaced by spamming mediation and the slow moves during RoF. Monk is pretty solid by itself there is very little you can do to make it better from it's inital 2.0 starting line, but it is nothing but disappointing to see moves gutted, have new useless moves, Heavensward it was tornado kick, and SB it is Arm of the Destroyer, Riddle of Wind... essentially the Tackle mastery.

I also don't like that I must Meld like crazy to make the new meditation trait even viable to me. I still enjoy monk, but from the trailer I felt like it would be OUR expansion and what we got for 60 to 70 is mostly disappointment.

[Leonus]

I don't see how, as a burst cooldown Perfect Balance .... The reason Monk Needs PB's recast reduced isn't Meikyo, it's Blood of the Dragon and Enochian which are both on 30 second recasts.

PB's cooldown being so massive serves no point but to arbitrarily bar monk from getting up to speed when the boss Jumps at this point.

I don't know if people would use it as a burst cool down rather than a part of the regular rotation. I don't know how much of a dps gain it would be, but it would be enough to use it on CD unless a phase change is coming up. At east I don't think it would work out that way, as at that timer it would be used to drop tornado kick on the enemy and GL3 back quickly. Plus just like you pointed out it can be used to reapply buffs/debuffs quickly if needed (probably not all of them at that time) with Mnks awesome damage boost.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think PB should be 180 seconds, but somewhere between 90-120 would be good for it. Based on what I'm reading, for the most part I think I'll enjoy mnk at 70. Sam and drg still have a slower attack speed than mnk and are comparable when mnk uses RoF.

I can see how it puts people off though.

[SpeckledBurd]

I don't know if people would use it as a burst cool down rather than a part of the regular rotation. I don't know how much of a dps gain it would be, but it would be enough to use it on CD unless a phase change is coming up. At east I don't think it would work out that way, as at that timer it would be used to drop tornado kick on the enemy and GL3 back quickly. Plus just like you pointed out it can be used to reapply buffs/debuffs quickly if needed (probably not all of them at that time) with Mnks awesome damage boost.

Yes, this is exactly why we need it to have a 60 second cooldown. There are frequently times where the boss will jump and we'll be forced to lose our stacks and buffs a minute into a fight, and unlike every other job in the game, Monk is completely reliant on it's buffs in order to effectively deal damage. Our strongest action with its guaranteed crit equals about 210 potency, our strongest non-auto crit action only deals 180 potency. We're not like Samurai that only hits you like a slightly smaller truick if Jinpu falls off and builds up to a massive hit by getting all of its buff back up, we just build up toward hitting like everyone else. That's our big reward. Without GL3, Dragon Kick, and Twin Snakes we hit like we have Brink of Death giving monk the ability to actually get its buffs back up immediately at half the speed of Dragoon, Black Mage, and Ninja isn't really an unreasonable thing to ask for.

And the fact that we got Riddle of Earth as a means of alleviating this, when it's a hyper situational action that sometimes doesn't even work in the situations it's supposed to because of how long it takes for the boss to throw out an AOE when it's supposed to is just insulting frankly.