Your looking at it the wrong way.

[Lakefingers]

I don't see how people complaining about the game is such a terrible thing really. If everyone has ideas and posts long feedback with a ton of constructive criticism it would be even worse. At least this way if a lot of people are complaining about a certain issue then SE know they have to deal with it.

What is so threatening to this so called "White Knight" collective about a complaint? I disagree with people a lot of the time but I don't jump on every person that wants to have a quick rant about an aspect of the game that has annoyed them lately. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to do so.

[TheVedis]

I don't see how people complaining about the game is such a terrible thing really. If everyone has ideas and posts long feedback with a ton of constructive criticism it would be even worse. At least this way if a lot of people are complaining about a certain issue then SE know they have to deal with it.

What is so threatening to this so called "White Knight" collective about a complaint? I disagree with people a lot of the time but I don't jump on every person that wants to have a quick rant about an aspect of the game that has annoyed them lately. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to do so.

the problem isnt that they are4 complaining

its how they are doing it

[Alerith]

I don't see how people complaining about the game is such a terrible thing really. If everyone has ideas and posts long feedback with a ton of constructive criticism it would be even worse. At least this way if a lot of people are complaining about a certain issue then SE know they have to deal with it.

What is so threatening to this so called "White Knight" collective about a complaint? I disagree with people a lot of the time but I don't jump on every person that wants to have a quick rant about an aspect of the game that has annoyed them lately. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to do so.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to be upset. It's also perfectly reasonable for people to rant. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But people are expecting rants and rage posts to bring about change and they get even more pissed when other people don't agree with them or don't take them seriously because of how they posted.

A properly formulated post with constructive feedback and maybe, gods forbid, a [Dev Tag], would go much further than someone in an all caps rage or someone bashing the game as a whole because of a bad mechanic.

[Deli]

I don't think there are so-called white knight or SE-haters, too. It's just different personality people out there.

Some people are more positive and willing to adjust self with the challenges while others has no idea what else to do than yelling rabble rabble rabble such as folks in South Park.

[Hayden]

I think Xatsh's post pretty much summed it up. Quite a few defenders are in this thread - the bashers I guess are elsewhere. Xatsh's point in their post is the most balanced. I'm part of the usual basher group, but I got linked to this by a friend of mine who is equally as cynical about the game as I am.

There's no way for us to know if Square is listening or not in each thread/request we make, as I've seen a lot of great suggestions and suggestions for fixes made and get no responses to. Case in point, I made a simple post a few days back requesting that the search party comment function to be adjusted to allow Auto Translate to be used so international players can play with each other, but there has been very little response either from the community or a rep. Now it's not a game-breaking issue, yes, but allowing a lot of little issues like these to go by detracts from the overall feel of quality of the game. I've seen many posts like these where I felt there were very minor, straightforward issues that could be easily be fixed with a quick patch that either hasn't been addressed or pushed back to a patch 2 months from now.

It's the inconsistent nature of the way Square handles community requests that bothers me; that Power Leveling thread hit dozens of pages before we got an official response. Smaller (or even bigger) feature request threads sometimes gets a response within 5-10 posts - others take 2 or 3 pages. Other posts that result in several pages of arguing result in no response, even though it seems to be a big enough issue. I'm not expecting an x number of posts = RESPONSE NAO sort of deal, but I think some posters who have valid issues aren't posting their issues because of this inconsistent nature, and anything criticizing Square in regards to their bad game design decisions and requesting a fix for it will be shot down by white knight defenders.

Ultimately, however, it really boils down to what Xatsh says: the game is incomplete. Anyone who tells you otherwise has their head in the sand. If you're willing to play for an incomplete game to support Square's move for 2.0, that's great of you. If you're not, there's nothing to be held against you for it - plenty of other complete MMOs and single and multiplayer games are out there to keep you occupied. Your $10/month from here on forth is basically an investment in faith for Square to do it right with 2.0. Paying money to fund development costs for an incomplete MMO while playing that said MMO is something that is unprecedented in the world of MMOs. And if Square manages to get 2.0 right, Yoshida would have pulled off one of the biggest fricken miracles in the course of MMO history, which would make for pretty good media coverage for 2.0 and its future. I hope Yoshida pulls it off so that XIV becomes a better game than XI, period.

tl;dr We'll see.

I think we all have a right to be cynical. I find myself jumping to the defense so often not because I have unyielding faith in Square, or because I am blinded by some sort of unjust devotion to this game, but simply because of the harsh and immature nature of so many of the individuals with sometimes very just and understandable opinions, that are unfortunately just worded very incorrectly and as I said before, harsh and immature.

You, me and everyone else have every right to be disappointed. But as you so articulately pointed out, we are (or will be) paying for the chance to participate in the development of an incomplete MMO.

They could (and maybe should?) have dumped this whole project rather than sink manpower and time into fixing it. Rather they choose to try and fix it. So rather than being left out, we were given the chance to play the game during the process. A unique and somewhat exciting process if you ask me. But not with out its frustration and heart ache either.

[Zanfire]

Honestly, I think it's about time for a change in how most of us are looking at this. There are so many entitled and whiny posts on this forum, that sifting through them to find the honest feedback must be a never ending and daunting task for our poor Dev team.

I think we are missing the point of these forums, and the dev tracker system all together.

We have an honest chance to effect the development of this mmo and how it is molded as 2.0 approaches.

So the game sucks. Well sure if you are looking at it as a finished product. Or even through the same glasses you would look at a normal MMO after launch.

What we have here is not a finished product, or even a standard MMO. We have a shell of a previous game being slowly morphed into a completely different game. So troll translation? Somebody messed up BIG and now a new team is putting the pieces back together.

This is our chance to look at it with constructive criticism and tell them what IS and IS NOT working. As they progress we see the results in Patches. Small pieces of a bigger picture. Now because each patch does not give us what we like, or changes some small aspect we did like, we get pissed off, throw our hands in the air and swear vengeance on Sqeenix and its house for generations to come! When in reality each patch is simply a piece of the puzzle, in some cases it may not make sense until a few more pieces are put on. Sometimes what they are doing is just laying the ground work for future patches and changes. It'd going to be messy, it's going to be ugly. But what is the alternative? Leave the game in its original state a state which we all disliked? We wanted change! Programming is not fun nor is it EASY! Line after line of code each making sure it does not counter-dict some other line, a line most likely written by somebody ELSE who no longer WORKS on this product. It's amazing they've not just scrapped this whole thing and started over! It may have been easier!

We don't have to blindly back them up and white knight everything! If we see something we don't like, some aspect of game play we don't want in this MMO that is what the forum's are for. Giving constructive feedback! Not griping about everything and tearing the game down before it's launched.

Somebody screwed up. We know that, we've known that for over a year now. Let's move past that and start helping this dev team put the pieces back together. Because honestly if you don't want to see that done, now that the "free trial" is over. Why are you still here?

so your basically calling it a work in progress/beta yet your completely fine with paying for a beta? im so confused...

[Kiote]

I completely agree. But it's not just about the way people Post there opinions to the forums, it's the way other react to them as well. A lot of times in these forums people will post a legitimate concern or mention something they think was a bad idea and they are instantly flamed. It's not even really like it's a rampant problem. There are roughly 12 people who regularly post in these forums for the sole purpose to putting down other peoples opinions. It's despicable and the community needs to put in a serious effort to start reporting these people for their abusive posts.

[Please take note of the small black triangle with the exclamation point inside at the bottom left corner of Posts.]

[Kiote]

so your basically calling it a work in progress/beta yet your completely fine with paying for a beta? im so confused...

What he is saying, is that he enjoys this game enough to want to see it become good. If he has to pay a sub to maintain his ability to effect the future of it's development, then so be it.

[Zanfire]

I think Xatsh's post pretty much summed it up. Quite a few defenders are in this thread - the bashers I guess are elsewhere. Xatsh's point in their post is the most balanced. I'm part of the usual basher group, but I got linked to this by a friend of mine who is equally as cynical about the game as I am.

There's no way for us to know if Square is listening or not in each thread/request we make, as I've seen a lot of great suggestions and suggestions for fixes made and get no responses to. Case in point, I made a simple post a few days back requesting that the search party comment function to be adjusted to allow Auto Translate to be used so international players can play with each other, but there has been very little response either from the community or a rep. Now it's not a game-breaking issue, yes, but allowing a lot of little issues like these to go by detracts from the overall feel of quality of the game. I've seen many posts like these where I felt there were very minor, straightforward issues that could be easily be fixed with a quick patch that either hasn't been addressed or pushed back to a patch 2 months from now.

It's the inconsistent nature of the way Square handles community requests that bothers me; that Power Leveling thread hit dozens of pages before we got an official response. Smaller (or even bigger) feature request threads sometimes gets a response within 5-10 posts - others take 2 or 3 pages. Other posts that result in several pages of arguing result in no response, even though it seems to be a big enough issue. I'm not expecting an x number of posts = RESPONSE NAO sort of deal, but I think some posters who have valid issues aren't posting their issues because of this inconsistent nature, and anything criticizing Square in regards to their bad game design decisions and requesting a fix for it will be shot down by white knight defenders.

Ultimately, however, it really boils down to what Xatsh says: the game is incomplete. Anyone who tells you otherwise has their head in the sand. If you're willing to play for an incomplete game to support Square's move for 2.0, that's great of you. If you're not, there's nothing to be held against you for it - plenty of other complete MMOs and single and multiplayer games are out there to keep you occupied. Your $10/month from here on forth is basically an investment in faith for Square to do it right with 2.0. Paying money to fund development costs for an incomplete MMO while playing that said MMO is something that is unprecedented in the world of MMOs. And if Square manages to get 2.0 right, Yoshida would have pulled off one of the biggest fricken miracles in the course of MMO history, which would make for pretty good media coverage for 2.0 and its future. I hope Yoshida pulls it off so that XIV becomes a better game than XI, period.

tl;dr We'll see.

Where's my stocks SE.

[Bowen]

lol. the game is dying. the majority of people still playing are the whiteknight fanboys. SE ruined this game, no amount of player feedback or work is going to save it. 2.0 will come...the game will pickup for a short while...then fade away again. It's the same thing that has happened in every patch since 1.18.

This most recent patch was 1 step forward 2 steps back.

Yes we got some core game functions that the game should have had from day 1.
Yes they are preparing the classes for the new jobs.

BUT (bring on the trolls cause thats really all thats left on this forum), they implemented this class change at the wrong time. These class changes should have been held off until advanced jobs came out, and implemented at the same time. Implementing changes such as these (that made almost all classes weaker than they were before) that are planed for bigger changes in the future just makes the game more broken until those next changes come about. In other words SE is breaking the game with the explicit purpose of fixing it later. What kind of backwards @ss thinking is that? Lets break it so we can fix it later?

SE has no clue what they are doing.

(start the flaming trolls)

Hey SE can we get a dislike button please?