Your looking at it the wrong way.

[LicontAshontear]

thank you for proving my point

you are just a raging over not getting things the way you want them, several of us have remained very objective in our posts

the problem is those who dont side with the game is dying crowd(yours) are apperently ALL white knights who think nothing is wrong
yet we also admit to whats wrong, but cynics are so blinded by this they cant see it

also, learn what a troll is, you obviously need a dictionary

same troll still trolling. post something about the current situation of the game or gtfo. you do nothing but post random things that have nothing to do with the discussion, you are a troll. kthxbai.

[TheVedis]

same troll still trolling. post something about the current situation of the game or gtfo. you do nothing but post random things that have nothing to do with the discussion, you are a troll. kthxbai.

this isnt a thread about that, this is a thread about people learning to give constructive critisism and not just being total cynics, whiners, or yelling at everyone who doesnt agree with them or says something they dont like(like you are doing right now)

so i guess im in the correct place, why are you here again?

[LicontAshontear]

this isnt a thread about that, this is a thread about people learning to give constructive critisism and not just being total cynics, whiners, or yelling at everyone who doesnt agree with them or says something they dont like(like you are doing right now)

so i guess im in the correct place, why are you here again?

same troll still trolling. you are merely proving my point by continuing to exist on this thread. Go to another thread where your opinion can be ignored. Kthxbai.

[Bahn]

I think Xatsh's post pretty much summed it up. Quite a few defenders are in this thread - the bashers I guess are elsewhere. Xatsh's point in their post is the most balanced. I'm part of the usual basher group, but I got linked to this by a friend of mine who is equally as cynical about the game as I am.

There's no way for us to know if Square is listening or not in each thread/request we make, as I've seen a lot of great suggestions and suggestions for fixes made and get no responses to. Case in point, I made a simple post a few days back requesting that the search party comment function to be adjusted to allow Auto Translate to be used so international players can play with each other, but there has been very little response either from the community or a rep. Now it's not a game-breaking issue, yes, but allowing a lot of little issues like these to go by detracts from the overall feel of quality of the game. I've seen many posts like these where I felt there were very minor, straightforward issues that could be easily be fixed with a quick patch that either hasn't been addressed or pushed back to a patch 2 months from now.

It's the inconsistent nature of the way Square handles community requests that bothers me; that Power Leveling thread hit dozens of pages before we got an official response. Smaller (or even bigger) feature request threads sometimes gets a response within 5-10 posts - others take 2 or 3 pages. Other posts that result in several pages of arguing result in no response, even though it seems to be a big enough issue. I'm not expecting an x number of posts = RESPONSE NAO sort of deal, but I think some posters who have valid issues aren't posting their issues because of this inconsistent nature, and anything criticizing Square in regards to their bad game design decisions and requesting a fix for it will be shot down by white knight defenders.

Ultimately, however, it really boils down to what Xatsh says: the game is incomplete. Anyone who tells you otherwise has their head in the sand. If you're willing to play for an incomplete game to support Square's move for 2.0, that's great of you. If you're not, there's nothing to be held against you for it - plenty of other complete MMOs and single and multiplayer games are out there to keep you occupied. Your $10/month from here on forth is basically an investment in faith for Square to do it right with 2.0. Paying money to fund development costs for an incomplete MMO while playing that said MMO is something that is unprecedented in the world of MMOs. And if Square manages to get 2.0 right, Yoshida would have pulled off one of the biggest fricken miracles in the course of MMO history, which would make for pretty good media coverage for 2.0 and its future. I hope Yoshida pulls it off so that XIV becomes a better game than XI, period.

tl;dr We'll see.

[Hayden]

I think Xatsh's post pretty much summed it up. Quite a few defenders are in this thread - the bashers I guess are elsewhere. Xatsh's point in their post is the most balanced. I'm part of the usual basher group, but I got linked to this by a friend of mine who is equally as cynical about the game as I am.

There's no way for us to know if Square is listening or not in each thread/request we make, as I've seen a lot of great suggestions and suggestions for fixes made and get no responses to. Case in point, I made a simple post a few days back requesting that the search party comment function to be adjusted to allow Auto Translate to be used so international players can play with each other, but there has been very little response either from the community or a rep. Now it's not a game-breaking issue, yes, but allowing a lot of little issues like these to go by detracts from the overall feel of quality of the game. I've seen many posts like these where I felt there were very minor, straightforward issues that could be easily be fixed with a quick patch that either hasn't been addressed or pushed back to a patch 2 months from now.

It's the inconsistent nature of the way Square handles community requests that bothers me; that Power Leveling thread hit dozens of pages before we got an official response. Smaller (or even bigger) feature request threads sometimes gets a response within 5-10 posts - others take 2 or 3 pages. Other posts that result in several pages of arguing result in no response, even though it seems to be a big enough issue. I'm not expecting an x number of posts = RESPONSE NAO sort of deal, but I think some posters who have valid issues aren't posting their issues because of this inconsistent nature, and anything criticizing Square in regards to their bad game design decisions and requesting a fix for it will be shot down by white knight defenders.

Ultimately, however, it really boils down to what Xatsh says: the game is incomplete. Anyone who tells you otherwise has their head in the sand. If you're willing to play for an incomplete game to support Square's move for 2.0, that's great of you. If you're not, there's nothing to be held against you for it - plenty of other complete MMOs and single and multiplayer games are out there to keep you occupied. Your $10/month from here on forth is basically an investment in faith for Square to do it right with 2.0. Paying money to fund development costs for an incomplete MMO while playing that said MMO is something that is unprecedented in the world of MMOs. And if Square manages to get 2.0 right, Yoshida would have pulled off one of the biggest fricken miracles in the course of MMO history, which would make for pretty good media coverage for 2.0 and its future. I hope Yoshida pulls it off so that XIV becomes a better game than XI, period.

tl;dr We'll see.

I think we all have a right to be cynical. I find myself jumping to the defense so often not because I have unyielding faith in Square, or because I am blinded by some sort of unjust devotion to this game, but simply because of the harsh and immature nature of so many of the individuals with sometimes very just and understandable opinions, that are unfortunately just worded very incorrectly and as I said before, harsh and immature.

You, me and everyone else have every right to be disappointed. But as you so articulately pointed out, we are (or will be) paying for the chance to participate in the development of an incomplete MMO.

They could (and maybe should?) have dumped this whole project rather than sink manpower and time into fixing it. Rather they choose to try and fix it. So rather than being left out, we were given the chance to play the game during the process. A unique and somewhat exciting process if you ask me. But not with out its frustration and heart ache either.

[Bahn]

I think we all have a right to be cynical. I find myself jumping to the defense so often not because I have unyielding faith in Square, or because I am blinded by some sort of unjust devotion to this game, but simply because of the harsh and immature nature of so many of the individuals with sometimes very just and understandable opinions, that are unfortunately just worded very incorrectly and as I said before, harsh and immature.

You, me and everyone else have every right to be disappointed. But as you so articulately pointed out, we are (or will be) paying for the chance to participate in the development of an incomplete MMO.

They could (and maybe should?) have dumped this whole project rather than sink manpower and time into fixing it. Rather they choose to try and fix it. So rather than being left out, we were given the chance to play the game during the process. A unique and somewhat exciting process if you ask me. But not with out its frustration and heart ache either.

I seriously think they should've shut down the game and worked on it until 2.0 was released - there's always this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that if more resources (NOTE: NOT MORE PEOPLE) were available to work on 2.0 we'd get it sooner. The game has some serious issues that won't be and can't be addressed until 2.0 (UI latency + position update latency). I wouldn't have minded losing access to this game since I have other games I can play in the meantime - tons of GOTY material titles came out this year, and if it would've allowed Square to get 2.0 out the door before other MMO and MMO-like competitors got their product.

At the same time, their continual patches of the originally heavily flawed game also allows us, as customers, to in a sense "teach" Square Things You Should Do and Things You Shouldn't Do with MMOs. They've made a lot of good game design decisions, and equally as many bad decisions with each patch, and I think with each additional patch the devs are slowly starting to "get" how you're supposed to make an MMO that is meant to appeal to a wider (not necessarily Western) audience.

One small thing I noticed with 1.20, for example, was their addition of a mini-action bar on the bottom right that gives you direct access to certain functions at the click of a mouse - perfectly suited for mouse and keyboard users. If people didn't complain about the horrible convoluted UI, improvements like these wouldn't have been made. Their revamped party search function UI also seems to have been based on feedback from us about repeatedly telling Square not to make UIs for new functions convoluted like they did in the past. And now that they learned that Going Through Multiple Menus Is Really Bad Design, that means that in future functions they implement for our current alpha/beta and for 2.0, they will take that into account.

Basically, people need to realize that there IS valid criticism - there are bad AND good game decisions Square has made in multiple instances. What we (the so-called bashers or haters) get annoyed by is when someone comes by and says "nothing is wrong here" when it's pretty obvious something is wrong. Then in another thread validly criticizing a bad design decision, those same people say the same thing. And then another, and then another. That's when we get irritated and that's when the back-and-forth arguments between the same people happen. It gets annoying when the same people continuously say nothing is wrong for every issue that is presented when people make perfectly valid points about these issues. Then in the end - those same people end up telling us "no matter what Square does you'll never be satisfied and you're just a bunch of whiny crybabies and should play another game!"

As I've stated in other threads, I applaud Yoshida when his team does the right stuff (finally getting Chocobos in, fixing/balancing classes, streamlining the god-awful synthing system, making the combat system more fluid), but I'll also get on him and his team for the bad stuff too (the DoH/DoL achievement requirement, his need to focus on the 8-player content rather lowman content, the UI/position latency, etc). I've actually posted in a couple threads telling others to lay off the irrational criticism because some people DO look like they're just complaining for the sake of complaining, using really bad slippery slope analogies and sweeping hyperbolic generalizations about Square. I've also posted in just as many threads telling defenders to piss off because they've used ad hominem attacks on those justifiably criticizing Square for bad design decisions (common attacks are "you are too lazy" or "learn to play".

Regardless of all the arguing and namecalling (which I will say I am plenty guilty of), I'm just glad there's a place for us to express our support AND our grievances considering how small the population of this game is. We may not get all of what we want into this game, but I can imagine this game would be in a MUCH worse state if the forums weren't opened up in the first place.

[Zanfire]

I think Xatsh's post pretty much summed it up. Quite a few defenders are in this thread - the bashers I guess are elsewhere. Xatsh's point in their post is the most balanced. I'm part of the usual basher group, but I got linked to this by a friend of mine who is equally as cynical about the game as I am.

There's no way for us to know if Square is listening or not in each thread/request we make, as I've seen a lot of great suggestions and suggestions for fixes made and get no responses to. Case in point, I made a simple post a few days back requesting that the search party comment function to be adjusted to allow Auto Translate to be used so international players can play with each other, but there has been very little response either from the community or a rep. Now it's not a game-breaking issue, yes, but allowing a lot of little issues like these to go by detracts from the overall feel of quality of the game. I've seen many posts like these where I felt there were very minor, straightforward issues that could be easily be fixed with a quick patch that either hasn't been addressed or pushed back to a patch 2 months from now.

It's the inconsistent nature of the way Square handles community requests that bothers me; that Power Leveling thread hit dozens of pages before we got an official response. Smaller (or even bigger) feature request threads sometimes gets a response within 5-10 posts - others take 2 or 3 pages. Other posts that result in several pages of arguing result in no response, even though it seems to be a big enough issue. I'm not expecting an x number of posts = RESPONSE NAO sort of deal, but I think some posters who have valid issues aren't posting their issues because of this inconsistent nature, and anything criticizing Square in regards to their bad game design decisions and requesting a fix for it will be shot down by white knight defenders.

Ultimately, however, it really boils down to what Xatsh says: the game is incomplete. Anyone who tells you otherwise has their head in the sand. If you're willing to play for an incomplete game to support Square's move for 2.0, that's great of you. If you're not, there's nothing to be held against you for it - plenty of other complete MMOs and single and multiplayer games are out there to keep you occupied. Your $10/month from here on forth is basically an investment in faith for Square to do it right with 2.0. Paying money to fund development costs for an incomplete MMO while playing that said MMO is something that is unprecedented in the world of MMOs. And if Square manages to get 2.0 right, Yoshida would have pulled off one of the biggest fricken miracles in the course of MMO history, which would make for pretty good media coverage for 2.0 and its future. I hope Yoshida pulls it off so that XIV becomes a better game than XI, period.

tl;dr We'll see.

Where's my stocks SE.