Yet another drk whining thread

[Jhett_Magnum]

Yoshi-p expressed that theme of PLD should be the designated MT and I think it's in a wonderful spot right now.

However, in my opinion they left out the thematics of DRK.

I think we can all agree that across all iterations of DRK we used it for damage. [So why is the FFXIVs DRK complex with little to no reward in dps?]

Our new mechanic is lame and tacked on. Our skills are lackluster and could have so much more potential.

Delete Delirium. Make Bloodspiller extend BW and BP. 100% uptime or just extending it would be amazing.

Delete Dark passenger. Add its DA potency to Quietus. 160 DA+Q 260 and silence 4xx in grit.

Blood Price needs a mechanic as well.
takes 10% chance that the next DA'd weapon skill deals critical damage.

Thematically PLD and DRK are supposed to be two polar opposites.
One boasts a stronger defensive MT kit while the other has a better offensive OT kit.
In terms of Mitigation...
MT kit: PLD≥ WAR > DRK
Damage
OT kit: DRK ≥ WAR > PLD

[Derio]

Increase DP DA potency to 280 or reduce its no cost.
Quietus needs a potency buff for DA.

However SE said fixing tanks is high priority and we will see in 4.05

[Kalocin]

In theory its a fun idea, in practice it isn't. I don't think any content should be gimped because you lacked a Paladin.
Now what I think putting it in practice here makes more sense:
Make our offensive cool downs defensive. Through damage we become better tanks.
Ie. Soul Eater's self heal currently.
Another one would be say dark arts with Bloodspiller puts a reprisal-like effect up. Dark Passenger's reworked as a mini debuff for bosses in mind. Heck it's in the name, throw a silence on Quietus.

[SyzzleSpark]

Yoshi-p expressed that theme of PLD should be the designated MT and I think it's in a wonderful spot right now.

With all due respect to Yoshi P and the work he does, he has a very casual view of his own game and no tank should be a better or worse MT than another. Differences should be in DPS and utility, and having 1 tank hold the boss for an entire encounter is woefully inefficient and leaves half both tanks' kits completely unused.

I think we can all agree that across all iterations of DRK we used it for damage.

I disagree. After Gordias, DRK was used not for its damage but for the fact that Delirium and Reprisal were 100% superior to Divine Veil. Midas and Creator had far more lenient DPS checks and thus DRK's added DPS was not the primary reason to take one.

Our new mechanic is lame and tacked on. Our skills are lackluster and could have so much more potential.

This is 100% subjective and I disagree. Most of the new DRK abilities are actually very good and well designed, and our gauge is by far the best designed out of all the tanks without a doubt. Yeah there are things about DRK that need fixing but they've fixed almost all of its conflicting design elements and made the overall framework of the job very slick. Most of the problems have to do with potency numbers/percentages and a lack of personal mitigation/DPS.

Delete Delirium. Make Bloodspiller extend BW and BP. 100% uptime or just extending it would be amazing.

Delirium is amazing and I would not remove it or any part of it. It provides you with a surplus of MP and the extension of BW creates an incredible burst window that is very satisfying. For a DPS buff, I think they could make it so that Delirium tacks on a +30% damage dealt increase to Blood Weapon (this sounds like a lot, but across 2 minutes it is about a 5% increase). Its a window you have to hit just like WAR and Inner Release, removing it would make cries of "DRK IS BRAINDEAD" even more deafening.

The whole "Delete xyz ability" meme is really stupid and unimaginative. Buff abilities, sure, but remove them for no reason to make the job even less interesting? Even Shake it Off could be buffed to be useful, if for instance it blocked 100% of all detrimental statuses for a full 10s, basically a Hallowed Ground but without the invuln.

Delete Dark passenger. Add its DA potency to Quietus. 160 DA+Q 260 and silence 4xx in grit.

Again with the lazy delete meme. Dark Passenger should simply be reverted to its original form. There is nothing wrong with Quietus. Its our only AoE that doesn't cost mana to use and gives us a breather from AD spam while dealing more damage.

Blood Price needs a mechanic as well.
takes 10% chance that the next DA'd weapon skill deals critical damage.

Our Grit damage is already crazy high, relatively speaking. I would rather Blood Price have an additional defensive mechanic, like a small heal over time, or -10% damage taken. Just to give DRK something that rewards us with some bonus mitigation/healing for a small sacrifice of DPS, similar to IB/Equilibrium or Clemency/Passage of Arms.

Thematically PLD and DRK are supposed to be two polar opposites.
One boasts a stronger defensive MT kit while the other has a better offensive OT kit.
In terms of Mitigation...
MT kit: PLD≥ WAR > DRK
Damage
OT kit: DRK ≥ WAR > PLD

This is a really poor idea, because then you make DRK a garbage tank. No tank should be fundamentally weaker defensively than the others as this ruins the tank's ability to function in content. The whole MT/OT thing is foolish anyway, as I stated above. You are co-tank/co-tank.

There should not be this prima-dona "I AM THE MT I WILL TANK ALL OF THE THINGS DON'T YOU DARE TANK ANYTHING FOR ME" schtick, or this shrinking-violet "Um, hey guys ...I'm the OT... I'm here for the carry and free pass to slip under the radar dealing subpar DPS while not handling any actual tank mechanics... I'll be over here if you need me..." mentality.

[Jim_Berry]

As a PLD main, I have been starting to level up my DRK (currently Lv63 after being Lv60 for a long time). In the current dungeon, I like how I can stay in Grit, and spam my Souleater combo with Dark Arts (I barely have a need to Power Slash at the moment). Since I don't dps on my tanks, I like it's current setup. Please don't change this.

I was good as a healer, but struggled to dps on her.
I was good as mechanics and such as a dps, but struggled to dish out high damage.

Tanking is my last resort to continue playing this game, and tanking has been great to me. I cannot dps much as tank, but I do everything else fine. I've already retired BRD, DRG, and WHM. I'm left with PLD, DRK, WAR, AST, and NIN.

[Daniel_Fury]

There is nothing wrong with Quietus. Its our only AoE that doesn't cost mana to use and gives us a breather from AD spam while dealing more damage.

I'd like to add that this skill is designed as an OT skill. It provides no emnity and it's our only physical damage aoe.
Coupled with blood weapon, it will return 4xx mp and 3 blood per enemy hit.

I don't know what aoe potential will be added to savage but if we factor in DRKS aoe performance, it actually sits fairly well in balance with the slightly lower single target dps. I just hope they make use of this in the upcoming raids. (Current encounters do not make use of this advantage)

[Jhett_Magnum]

Snip

1. So basically you'd rather homoginize tanks. You're saying fact that PLD can passively block phys/magic and parry attacks means all tanks should. I'm for uniqueness.It all comes down to content design.
2. We're talking about thematics from all Final Fantasies.
3. To each thier own on that one, but imo there's always room for improvement.
4. There's nothing fun and imaginative about Delirium. It's just an extra button with a rediculous recast timer. The MP you get back isn't even that good. I'd rather hit BS and extend BW. Frees up a DA without clipping my gcds.
5. Quietus is useless in LaEX, SusEX, DS1.0,2.0,3.0, and 4.0. So it does need a buff unless savage and future primals spawn multiple adds.
Also DP adds nothing really innovative really. It conflicts with Blood Price.
6. Our damage is far from crazy high so I'm not sure why we have to lose something for it. Although mitigation on Blood Price would be sick.
7. (See 1.)

[Dalmacus]

Quietus is really just a bad skill. I mean we already have Abyssal drain, unleash and dark passenger why do we need more AOE skills?! I rather they replace quietus with scourge.

[Chrono_Rising]

Quietus is really just a bad skill. I mean we already have Abyssal drain, unleash and dark passenger why do we need more AOE skills?! I rather they replace quietus with scourge.

I feel this would work better as a oGCD at the least.

[SyzzleSpark]

1. So basically you'd rather homoginize tanks. You're saying fact that PLD can passively block phys/magic and parry attacks means all tanks should. I'm for uniqueness.It all comes down to content design.
2. We're talking about thematics from all Final Fantasies.
3. To each thier own on that one, but imo there's always room for improvement.
4. There's nothing fun and imaginative about Delirium. It's just an extra button with a rediculous recast timer. The MP you get back isn't even that good. I'd rather hit BS and extend BW. Frees up a DA without clipping my gcds.
5. Quietus is useless in LaEX, SusEX, DS1.0,2.0,3.0, and 4.0. So it does need a buff unless savage and future primals spawn multiple adds.
Also DP adds nothing really innovative really. It conflicts with Blood Price.
6. Our damage is far from crazy high so I'm not sure why we have to lose something for it. Although mitigation on Blood Price would be sick.
7. (See 1.)

1. This is such a big, fat strawman I don't even know what to say to it in response.
2. No, we're talking about balance in a game with a trinity system, not staying true to previous FF games. If this is the route you wanna take then its just going to devolve into "DRK should be a DPS" arguments.
3. No argument here
4. Is there something fun and imaginative about FoF or Berserk? You hit a button and you deal more damage for it. I suspect that you're not using it properly.
5. In single target boss encounters with no adds the lack of Quietus usage is moot because you dump the resource for it on Bloodspiller instead, so I'm not sure what the complaint is here. In dungeons you can spam AD until almost oom, hit Delirium/Carve and Spit, Quietus, more AD spam, Quietus... It gives us an AoE that doesn't cost mana and a way to dump our gauge in AoE situations, that's what its for and it serves that design purpose. You not personally liking the thematics of it is not cause for change.
6. Again with the straw man - I said our Grit damage was high relatively compared to the other tanks, mostly because of Bloodspiller ignoring Grit. What DRK needs in Grit is more defense, not more damage. We don't have a single native cooldown with an uptime higher than 10s and two of those are on a 3 minute or higher recast. Its almost like they gutted 80% of the job's personal mitigation, designed it up to 70 without fixing it, and then said "oh crap, this job is squishier than a cup of jello, we better dump all of its mitigation into this ONE skill and force it to rely on that one button for 90% of the fight"
7. MT/OT design is still a poor thing to adhere to. The OT's defensive tools go unused, and the MT's offensive tools go unused, and aggro cannot be managed/buffed effectively between the two through swaps.