If we nerfed SCH's DPS rotation to practically mirror WHM/AST

[Riyshn]

No. SCH was really OP in HW, like REALLY OP. They had insanely MP efficient everything; damage, aoe, healing. 4 mitigation cooldowns that helped immensely in progression, especially learning A3S and A4S. On top of some really powerful OGCDs. You need to understand AST was trash at the start of HW and probably has the biggest buff list in the game if you look through patch notes from 3.0 to 3.4 where the balance team decided it was time to destroy all common sense and logic and make the Balance card ascend into godhood.

SCH's damage and healing as always been lower than WHM, and healing and MP management lower than AST. SCH got the position as off-healer/DPS Healer because it was practically designed for it, not because it was some overpowered monster.

SCH's DPS rotation was largely DoTs, which have low MP costs. That combined with part of it's MP management tools (Energy Drain) actually being part of the DPS rotation, meant that SCH could DPS indefinitely and be nearly MP-positive while doing so even if thier actual damage was relatively low, as opposed to WHM for example, who could output much higher damage, but only for about 2-3 minutes before they ran completely dry on MP. As for actual heals, SCH only has 3 on the GCD. Physick pre-SB was just a straight Cure clone, with the same potency and MP cost (it now still shares the MP cost afaik, but is 50 potency lower). Adlo and Succor both have absurd MP costs for how little they heal, and while they do have the shield aspect, that doesn't exactly help when trying to top people off. The only other heals SCH has are tied to Aetherflow, so are gated at 3 uses between them per minute, but that allowed them to quickly drop cleric and pop them between attacks. A SCH in HW who was spending significant time healing would go out of MP in about 1:30 on average, so I don't know where you got this idea that they had MP efficient healing.

[Sebazy]

No. SCH was really OP in HW, like REALLY OP. They had insanely MP efficient everything; damage, aoe, healing.

Was it really? They had almost endless efficiency up until a point (aka the things Eos could cover mostly by herself) but beyond that threshold things went downhill pretty fast for them, SCH's value was also emphasised by Noct AST being comparative trash even whilst Dia was considered to be top notch. WHMs raw throughput was as big a factor as SCH's mitigation for A3S. Looking back at A4S, I'm not really sure why AST didn't get a little bit of traction back there but then I killed it fairly late so it might have been a throughput thing again like it was for early A3S.

You need to understand AST was trash at the start of HW and probably has the biggest buff list in the game if you look through patch notes from 3.0 to 3.4 where the balance team decided it was time to destroy all common sense and logic and make the Balance card ascend into godhood.

I understand this well but thanks for your concern (I was reluctantly standing in for a server/world progression team as a SCH during A1S-A3S). My point you quoted was referring to 3.4 just incase you missed the memo. And I'd say most of those buffs were absolutely warranted. As you state, the glaring issue here is that Balance has no equal elsewhere.

[Pentt]

Yoshi P said himself that SCH was overpowered(as well as WAR) and savage fights were basically designed around them, they weren't going to be touched until SB. Also WHM damage was only higher in strictly single target, if there was anything a SCH could Bane to it would win over.

Now for heals, if you conveniently forgot about Lily and and her healing steroid CD, Rouse + WD every minute and magic rampart CD, sure a SCH would run OOM quickly if he himself had to keep the group topped. Efficiency doesn't just come from mana costs and spamming your AoE heal though. A SCH who properly micro'd his fairy and his healing CDs rarely found himself OOM.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

No. SCH was really OP in HW, like REALLY OP. They had insanely MP efficient everything; damage, aoe, healing. 4 mitigation cooldowns that helped immensely in progression, especially learning A3S and A4S. On top of some really powerful OGCDs. You need to understand AST was trash at the start of HW and probably has the biggest buff list in the game if you look through patch notes from 3.0 to 3.4 where the balance team decided it was time to destroy all common sense and logic and make the Balance card ascend into godhood.

Actually, they were MP inefficient in everything:
Broil costed 530 MP for 170 potency, which cost more and was less potent than Malefic II and Stone III
Succor cost more MP compared to Medica/Helios
Lustrate, which is the only equivalent to Cure II and Benefic II was not "free" of cost. Aetherflow stacks not used on Energy Drain is 884 MP not received. Or in other words: One use of Lustrate "costs" 884 MP

They simply had a much better tool to recover MP with. Unlike Shroud of Saints and Luminiferous Aether, Aetherflow actually scales with your MP pool. If anything, Scholars were like the Warriors among the healers; a kit too perfect for balance. Scholars practically had everything required for raid environment: (group) mitigation on demand, (small) damage buff for the party with Selene, MP sustain that scales with their attributes, burst healing on demand. The only thing that made Scholars stand out more than it should was the ludicrous GCD efficiency the fairy provided. A White Mage would need to apply Regen every 21 seconds. In a 5 minute encounter that's good for 14 GCDs. That's 14 GCDs the Scholar doesn't have to spend with the fairy present.

In a way, it wasn't that Scholar was "overpowered" in the most absolute form. Their kit, like warrior back then, was simply too perfect as everything the raid environment needed was in a single package

[Enla]

Yoshi P said himself that SCH was overpowered(as well as WAR) and savage fights were basically designed around them, they weren't going to be touched until SB. Also WHM damage was only higher in strictly single target, if there was anything a SCH could Bane to it would win over.

Now for heals, if you conveniently forgot about Lily and and her healing steroid CD, Rouse + WD every minute and magic rampart CD, sure a SCH would run OOM quickly if he himself had to keep the group topped. Efficiency doesn't just come from mana costs and spamming your AoE heal though. A SCH who properly micro'd his fairy and his healing CDs rarely found himself OOM.

Yoshi-P also doesn't seem to understand basic class play if you watch his brief forays into PVP during the last FanFest. (He ran around and did basically nothing in the developer fight and when he did he didn't even seem to understand his core rotation.) Likewise with some of the buffs and nerfs across the board in SB I'd argue a lot of the development team is out of touch as well - as much as I love and respect all of them - given the newest skills to DRG kit and the fact that all the utility of MCH was stripped into role abilities with no potency increase to offset their lowered importance. SCH was only ever overpowered in the hands of a good player, you need to know the fights to have any capability of going above and beyond - which was true even in Heavensward. Punishing people who actually paid attention and learned is not balance. An average SCH still had nothing on the heal or damage potency of WHM or AST.

[Rubiss]

Yoshi-P also doesn't seem to understand basic class play if you watch his brief forays into PVP during the last FanFest. (He ran around and did basically nothing in the developer fight and when he did he didn't even seem to understand his core rotation.) Likewise with some of the buffs and nerfs across the board in SB I'd argue a lot of the development team is out of touch as well - as much as I love and respect all of them - given the newest skills to DRG kit and the fact that all the utility of MCH was stripped into role abilities with no potency increase to offset their lowered importance. SCH was only ever overpowered in the hands of a good player, you need to know the fights to have any capability of going above and beyond - which was true even in Heavensward. Punishing people who actually paid attention and learned is not balance. An average SCH still had nothing on the heal or damage potency of WHM or AST.

His knowledge on healer are clearly weak if he really thought launching like this was okay. There were no parses done, that's for sure.

[Xygoz]

Except it doesn't suck. Actual viable constructive suggestions are better than pointless crying and moaning and yes the WHM stuff was hyperbolic and overblown as well.

your definition of suck must be different from mine, what are the strong points of scholar currently? because as it stands now there is a healer in the game that can do everything scholar can but more efficient.

[Deox]

your definition of suck must be different from mine, what are the strong points of scholar currently? because as it stands now there is a healer in the game that can do everything scholar can but more efficient.

Seeing how the AST/SCH combo is still currently stronger than the WHM/AST combo, not really.

An ast brings stronger base shields and cards at the moment but suffers from lower personal damage

A sch brings a more robust tool kit with very strong answers for different scenarios and solid dps

Ast is still a better WHM replacement than a SCH replacement as their regen kit is a bigger deal when fused with sch stuff and cards than their shield kit fused with whm regens.

White mages are bummed out still for a reason.

To be effective with a sch atm though requires you to use a good chunk of your toolkit at specific moments and timings which is a bit harder to play than the other two. But there is nothing wrong with a healer that isn't straight forward

[KDSilver]

Scholar was almost perfect.
If changes had to be done drastically, it wasn't on him but on others healers.

Instead, they messed everything up and now scholar have some issues (they took the problem in the wrong way...)