REQUEST: Make "trash" mobs hit harder.

[Dizhonor]

A lot of the problems I see coming out of duty finder seem tied in some way to the fact that trash mobs don't hit very hard. Because they don't hit hard, healers have time to DPS (thus the complaints and useless arguments about DPS-Healers and Healer-Healers). Weak trash mobs promote speed runs and a watered down grouping experience (thus the useless arguments about small vs. large pulls, and toxicity about play styles).

Years ago when Burning Crusade (World of Warcraft) was released, one of the things that made the expansion so FUN for me was the fact that groups NEEDED to use crowd-control abilities. If you didn't, you'd get smashed. You had to be tactical. And THAT was incredibly fun.

Of course, my experience is anecdotal, and the fun it gave me is subjective. And of course, you can still use crowd control with weak trash.

Anyone else think that this would be better?

[Niyuka]

Not going to happen. Burning Crusade was an entirely different design philosophy, that centered around creating fights and asking people to perform to a degree on most trash pulls. We are now past that. We are now more into the Action-RPG era, where its more about mowing down stuff at a certain speed to give the feeling of power and reward.

[Dzian]

Not going to happen. Burning Crusade was an entirely different design philosophy, that centered around creating fights and asking people to perform to a degree on most trash pulls. We are now past that. We are now more into the Action-RPG era, where its more about mowing down stuff at a certain speed to give the feeling of power and reward.

Counter productive though. because there's no feeling of power in killing a bunch of trash that doesn't pose a threat... it's about as powerfull as squashing a spider with your boot...

kinda why dungeons are always so boring because theres no satidfaction from killing anything in them..

[Niyuka]

Counter productive though. because there's no feeling of power in killing a bunch of trash that doesn't pose a threat... it's about as powerfull as squashing a spider with your boot...

kinda why dungeons are always so boring because theres no satidfaction from killing anything in them..

You are stuck in an old mindset. If you give players a choice between getting loot easy, quick, or hard and challenging, the vast majority will go for easy, every time. MMOs just cater to that, because catering to the other small part of the community doesnt work. Its been tried (Wildstar), it always fails with new generation players. I loved my 6 years of EQ1, chasing world-firsts and whatnot with LoS, but in the end, i wouldnt play it today anymore. I mourn the lack of challenge, but I wouldnt really use it as much as I use content thats just faceroll. Yes i might be happier, but its enough to keep me paying a sub as long as no other game does it better.

[Mikhaill]

Yeaaah...
I personally don't wanna spend 10 years on a mob
and wiping to them constantly. Also, SB mobs DO hit harder.

[Sylvina]

Yeaaah...
I personally don't wanna spend 10 years on a mob
and wiping to them constantly. Also, SB mobs DO hit harder.

Quite agreed. Mobs hit hard enough, especially stormblood mobs. If people who outgear the content want to speed run or do big pulls that's fine.

[Deceptus]

Yeaaah...
I personally don't wanna spend 10 years on a mob
and wiping to them constantly. Also, SB mobs DO hit harder.

I already do spend a long time trying to kill mobs as a healer . . .

[Ilenya]

Years ago when Burning Crusade (World of Warcraft) was released, one of the things that made the expansion so FUN for me was the fact that groups NEEDED to use crowd-control abilities. If you didn't, you'd get smashed. You had to be tactical. And THAT was incredibly fun.

Maybe if we had legitimate CC this would be doable, but there really isn't any to work with.

Edit: Most of what I've dealt with in CC was in City of Heroes, were the CC was pretty powerful. I have no idea how WoW's CC works/worked.

[Duelle]

Maybe if we had legitimate CC this would be doable, but there really isn't any to work with.

Edit: Most of what I've dealt with in CC was in City of Heroes, were the CC was pretty powerful. I have no idea how WoW's CC works/worked.

Generally CC came in the form of a couple of abilities:

Polymorph: Mages could turn mobs into sheep/monkeys/turtles to disable them for a set duration.
Freeze Trap: A long-duration incapacitate, used by hunters. A hunter would lay down the trap, pull one of the mobs to themselves and make them trigger the trap.
Sap: Long-duration stun that rogues could use. You'd have the rogue go into Stealth mode before pulling and then sap one of the mobs to remove them from the fight for a good while.
Shackles: Priest ability. Very much like polymorph, but only worked on undead enemies.
Banish: Warlock CC. Like polymorph, but only worked on demons and elementals(?).
Seduction: Channeled CC used by a Warlock with a succubus pet active. Lasted around 20 seconds, but your pet couldn't perform any action.

Honorary mention - Repentance: A 60-second incapacitate used by Retribution Paladins. Used to work only on undead, but then changed in WotLK to work on almost every enemy type. Needless to say, I loved this ability.

During TBC, mages and hunters had near-universal CC skills, while everyone else had limits to how their CC could be used. In dungeons with lots of undead, priests could be helpful with their CC, and the same went for warlocks in instances with demons or elemental creatures. The problem that arose was that when you were putting groups together, you ideally wanted a mage and a hunter in the group, though depending on the dungeon rogues, warlocks and priests could also contribute. As such, DPS slots were basically reserved for mages and hunters unless you could find none. So if you were a fury warrior or feral druid or a non-healer shaman (which got their own CC the expansion after TBC), you were screwed.

-----------------------------------

As for the topic, I agree that dungeon mobs in general should pose a greater threat. I wouldn't emulate TBC, because that was taken to a ridiculous extreme where trash mobs in heroics could 3 shot you if you weren't careful and didn't have a healer that brought their A game. Then again, I'm more partial to Wrath's approach, since depending on the pull you still needed to CC and interrupt mobs (CC was REALLY important in content like Heroic Halls of Reflection), while said mobs still hit hard enough that the tank and healer had to pay attention.

[Eyvhokan]

G
Sap: Long-duration stun that rogues could use. You'd have the rogue go into Stealth mode before pulling and then sap one of the mobs to remove them from the fight for a good while.

I remember from vanilla, that it always took you out of stealth after using it (so the tank had to pull immediately, and you often needed to use the 5m cooldown aggro dump as the tank couldn't cleave in case of hitting the sapped mob), and had a 10% fail chance anyway. You could get rid of the stealth dropping part by speccing into the subtlety tree, which was the worst in terms of pve damage.