Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

[SpookyGhost]

This is a weird thread since OP was right, in so much that he was specifically complaining about tanks that can't hold aggro and won't pop CDs when doing big pulls. Those tanks should actually stop since they're not fulfilling their main obligation as a tank and are, instead, being a DPS with extra health that's getting destroyed by all the mobs. Aggro and CDs first, then unleash the deeps.

[ADVSS]

http://i.imgur.com/8uDO2NJ.png[/IMG]





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I will be blunt. I wouldnt wish 2.0 paladin on any of you tanks


enmity is easy now because they keep inflating it, since 2.0, and thats all I'll say. I am, however open to hugs, got an infinite supply of them

[YitharV2]

But thats not a valid video. 24 man content in FFXIV equals Wow's LFR. They are meant to be easy

I mean, I do agree 24-man content is easy. But just because the content is casual that means there shouldn't be engagement? I don't quite agree with that.

I haven't tanked Lakshmi EX, but I've healed it. And from what I can see, it suffers from the same problem. Which is that damage comes out in spiky bursts and other than the boss is just auto attacking

EDIT:
Well it seems you don't understand my point so I'm just going to stop responding to you.
This video I keep showing to everyone was actually a very very easy raid. The end game hard mode dungeon for BiS that was released before this raid (SCHM), was much harder (one thing is at 25% Darkan has a tight and hard DPS check so if you don't kill him in that time you wipe).
My point is that the problem of "tankbusters, pop cooldown, AA for crap all other times" pervades content throughout FFXIV.

Even in leveling dungeons, in terms of tanking. TERA has far far more engagement than FFXIV does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdjetUEV-zw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu1lBWG7oEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWNt7be3vps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRQOocfr1p8

Note I'm not trying to toot my own horn here or anything. I'm definitely not the best player. I'm just saying your argument "oh this is casual easy content so it's fine it doesn't need to be engaging or fun" is stupid.

[Baci]

I mean, I do agree 24-man content is easy. But just because the content is casual that means there shouldn't be engagement? I don't quite agree with that.

I haven't tanked Lakshmi EX, but I've healed it. And from what I can see, it suffers from the same problem. Which is that damage comes out in spiky bursts and other than the boss is just auto attacking

The primals we have right now are ridicilously easy cause 1. Its the start of an expansion 2. SE probably thinks they needed to be even more easy cause of the class changes.

On the 24man content. Its not the mobs/bosses that make it hard. Its the 23 other people

[sorawild34]

So in your own words... Everything is the tanks fault...

[Shinkyo]

On the 24man content. Its not the mobs/bosses that make it hard. Its the 23 other people

Haha, a sad truth ...

[Baci]

snip

Of course tera with its action combat feels more engaging than FFXIV with its standard tab target Combat and where have I said easy content shouldnt be engaging or fun? I just stated that its meant to be easy and further, with how FFXIV is designed it will naturally be less engaging as tera

[Falar]

But it is a MMO? Don't get me wrong. I love the Final Fantasy series. And I respect that it's part of the FF franchise, but this is a MMO, whether you like or not. Note that Summoner and Red Mage were changed to fit the fact that FFXIV is a MMO.

My personal opinion is that tanks can be more than just DPS with simplified rotations. I'm not against tank DPS. I just think there can be more depth to both tank DPS and mitigation. I've only played 2 MMOs previously, but maybe I am a "MMO Chaser", I don't know.

I'm reminded of something from the Balance



Image from the picture. Basically someone wanting a story mode for Alexander Savage.

LUL, there is a story mode, its called normal.

When tanks were doing 70-80% of a DPS role the sky was not falling. I don't see any logical reason for it to have to be reduced to 50%. Put STR on our accessories, fix WAR and DRK, and call it a day.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

There is no Vit tank meta. Meta means most efficient tactics available and being vit tank is clearly not the most efficient way(At least currently).

...
SE being confused at what they do since all their design decisions thus far are contradicting themselves).
...

...
but either way SE has the final say on tanking changes and they seem determined to stamp out the unintentional meta.
....

On one hand they are doing that, but then they continue designing fights along the same line that created said meta. If SE really want to get rid of that meta then they have to do so by designing fights where this meta is not in any way optional and not by just messing around with the jobs and expect it to be fixed.
If a high amount of hp and a ton of mitigation was most optimal then the meta would change in that direction by itself, I do personally think that way of changing a meta is better then SE telling us that tanks need to be tanky without designing any fights around tanks needing to be tanky... heck they even failed on most fights to insert a reason for two tanks.

SE may want the game to be played one way...

But, they have to design the content to incentivise that playstyle.
Not just forcing the playstyle on the playerbase.


The Meta is organically created based on the mechanics and content design of the game.
If they want to change the Meta, they need to change their design.

[Shurrikhan]

My personal opinion is that tanks can be more than just DPS with simplified rotations. I'm not against tank DPS. I just think there can be more depth to both tank DPS and mitigation.

If people could make and maintain this as the goal of a given thread, maybe these arguments could finally stop beating around the bush and think-tank something useful. It seems like 90% of any given thread is either the promotion of a preference or beating common sense into those who believe that their preference and the actual game align when they do not. Rarely do they try to take the big picture and try to align the actual game with something that better serves a larger portion while alienating little to none of the population. Admittedly, though, that's really tough to do.

I would LOVE to see mitigation be more engaging. At that point it becomes a nuanced tradeoff even in rotational skills, rather just an arsenal of bonus CDs, DPS could end up a whole lot more engaging, too. That may be beyond the current team though, or at least its assumed value of its development time necessary.