Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

[Hruodig]

I can only assume people talking about dropping tank stance in EX encounters have been doing it with static groups, whose dps never make mistakes and thus have healers ready to get you back to 100%. But then, how bad would those DPS have to be that you wouldn't lose aggro by staying in dps stance throughout?

Or would you spam your aggro combo while in dps stance in perpetuity.
In which case, isn't it better to be in tank stance and instead use the dps rotation? Without losing any enmity? Would also let your healers dps (which I'm sure can pull in far greater numbers).


I've tried and I really don't understand how any one tank can maintain a dps rotation, while in dps stance, and not lose aggro to a competent team.

Coordinated use of dps's aggro dumps and shirk. Not really too hard.

[Kinkoz]

I've tried and I really don't understand how any one tank can maintain a dps rotation, while in dps stance, and not lose aggro to a competent team.

Because all DPS now have a way to reduce enmity output and any good Tank knows how to maintain their enmity generation.

Usually, once you establish your aggro lead, you're pretty much set on holding it for the rest of the fight unless the DPS outgear you or they have a particular nasty burst rotation.

[Odstarva]

Coordinated use of dps's aggro dumps and shirk. Not really too hard.

So, your healers don't get to dps at all during a fight like susano, I'd imagine. I mean, even with tank stance and cooldowns -it hurts-.

Are you sure your dps is worth more than that of the healers? By any measure?

Because all DPS now have a way to reduce enmity output and any good Tank knows how to maintain their enmity generation.

Usually, once you establish your aggro lead, you're pretty much set on holding it for the rest of the fight unless the DPS outgear you or they have a particular nasty burst rotation.

Sure, I can maintain enmity generation but then I won't be able to roll my dps rotation. And I can say good-night to the blackest night (arguably my best mitigation ability) without a means to recover mp, if I'm stuck in enmity rotation.

[Hruodig]

So, your healers don't get to dps at all during a fight like susano, I'd imagine. I mean, even with tank stance and cooldowns -it hurts-.

Are you sure your dps is worth more than that of the healers? By any measure?

My healers put out a combined 2285 dps on our last susano ex clear, not really sure what you're talking about.

[ADVSS]

So, your healers don't get to dps at all during a fight like susano, I'd imagine. I mean, even with tank stance and cooldowns -it hurts-.

Are you sure your dps is worth more than that of the healers? By any measure?

it should be, Tanks are basically expected to whack enemies to hold their attention, healers are supposed to whack allies to keep them alive.
And the diversion excuse is stupid too. It lazilly "shirks" a tanks responsibility of commanding and controlling hate to the dps. If they had any since Shirk wouldve been Yoink - a skill that steals enmity from the entire party at the tanks command and gives it to them. No healer or dps wants that much aggro on them except in some unvonventional settings, that go against the predetermined party set up anyway

making dps solely responsible for enmity generation, taking that away from tanks, and their damage/enmity generating stat, then angering both the healing community and tank community for trying to make dps more responsible and bore tanks to death with a snorefest, vit only yoy dont deal damage now you tank, and let dps use enmity controlling skills or you lose hate, rediculous. Just pushing more tanks away, and thats not what we want

The only reason shirk is even a good ability is for those dark knights that didnt bother levelling gladiator to get provoke. Oh wait that cant happen anymore.

[Ameela]

So, your healers don't get to dps at all during a fight like susano, I'd imagine. I mean, even with tank stance and cooldowns -it hurts-.

After the first phase he barely tickles you lol, anyone who can properly time and use their cooldowns can tank that fight in DPS stance while not making their healer's life a nightmare, unless you have one of those healers that always has to keep you at full HP even if you're only missing like 500.

[Kinkoz]

Are you sure your dps is worth more than that of the healers? By any measure?

Just the same that a good Tank can hold aggro while doing their DPS rotations almost nonstop, a fantastic Healer can put out respectable DPS while still keeping the party up and healthy in almost any circumstance.

It doesn't take much to re-establish your enmity lead if it starts to falter either. Sneaking in one or two of your enmity combos in the middle of your rotation is more than enough in most cases.

[Kinkoz]

And the diversion excuse is stupid too. It lazilly "shirks" a tanks responsibility of commanding and controlling hate to the dps.

You sound like one of those Red Mages who bursts and rips aggro right off a Tank without using Diversion, dies, and then cries that it's not YOUR fault, "the Tank should just be better at their job!" just because you've had Tanks that have had to overcompensate for your burst potential with Provoke and nonstop use of their enmity combo.

EDIT: Unless, of course, you meant something completely different by that. In which case, I apologize for my inflammatory remark, as it's become quite irksome to see this somewhat popular DPS mindset of "I shouldn't be expected to use Diversion whatsoever! The Tank should just play better!"

[Odstarva]

I'll have to see a dark knight doing it so I can learn from them then. By myself, as much as I imagine it, I can only see it going wrong.

Maybe it's time I try to find some videos of this happening, I don't want to keep hammering on an idea that may be just wrong - though I am still reluctant to believe it is that easy.

[YitharV2]

You have these people saying "if I'm holding hate I'm doing my job" eh kind of. In many other games "holding hate" involves perfecting a rotation and maximizing dps while also hitting proper cooldowns. Basically FF14 allows tanks to be very very lazy and still hold hate. In many other games you wouldn't actually hold hate with the kind of lazy rotation and optimization these people suggest.

Yeah. For Warrior Tank in TERA, you needed to know how to DPS well, or you weren't going to hold aggro. Defensive Stance is like tank stance in FFXIV. It just plops a multiplier on top of the damage you do. And only 3 skills have an aggro modifier. Torrent of Blows, Battle Cry, and Combative Strike. TERA Aggro formula. Outside of those 3 skills, Aggro = Damage * [(1 + Gear Threat Mods) * 1.85 * (1 + Threat Crystal Mods)]^2. And for those 3 skills you'd just need to include Skill Threat Mods and Glyph Threat Mods.

I feel like SE and Yoshi encourage lazy players. I mean I understand Yoshi and SE's viewpoint, but I don't agree with it.

From here:

Much as I love Yoshi-P, he encourages lazy players, not just healers. He refuses to take a stand on anything regarding player skill differences, and has even stated that he wishes to decrease the skill gap by making classes easier to play. He will never actually make any sort of statement that players can interpret at "Git Gud." That's just not how he rolls. It's also why the nerfs to the MSQ content that was actually a little challenging. Steps of Faith was never actually hard, it just took a pulse. But, your average DF denizen couldn't breathe and play at the same time, so it was nerfed. Which, I mean, from a developer standpoint, I get. You want all your players to be able to get through the story. But from a player's standpoint, it hurts. You breed laziness, by never forcing a player to ever get better. And those players become toxic towards any other players who expect them to wake up long enough to do more that the absolute minimum of effort. Case in point, the "I'll play how I want!" healers.