To the DPS META and please be reasonable with arguments

[Fannah]

"I can keep aggro as marauder!! hurgh!!!"

Pre-SB : I can keep aggro as Marauder I can survive as Marauder (without being at 5% HP the whole fight), I can DPS well as Marauder compared to the pure Tank stance ones (actually 33%more dmg and more with some CD), I could end absolutely all dungeons pre-SB in about 20min, yes I was doing big pulls, I used and timed all of my CD in every dungeons (that would be some good training for the lazy tanks we know), I looked at how to manage the best enmity to understand the system of it and optimize it, I never went to raids as MRD to sure to don't be a burden for very HL content (it was very important to me to don't bring my MRD to serious end game content as I know it wasn't optimal).

We had several cross skills that helped to survive a lot too to compensate the best it was possible (Shade Shift from Ninja-class, Invigorate, Stoneskin (macroed to target bosses' target, so it was even a way to help allies quickly for some boss mechanics targeting automatically someone else than the main tank, or just when the tank was untargetable/invincible), just to take some exemple, but yes it needs to get other classes leveled up, which I did).
Yes I wasn't allowed to do a single mistake in lvl60 content in order to succeed without being a burden, but the game is not only easy, it is also slow. I'm here to play with some IRL friends and family, to have fun, but I'm use to way more complicated games where we are not allowed to die a single time, or where needed reaction is way higher.

So if I can keep aggro, that I am actually tanking way enough to survive because I use all my CD very well, that I do more dps than others who would just stay safely in Tank stance (only good counter argument, some good healers could dps some more if I optimized my gameplay that much as WAR, but I've seen plenty of slacking healers, so even with a Marauder they had time to slack heal), and that I'm not slowing dungeons as I can completely do all the big pulls and clear dungeons in less than 20 min without dying at all and following the strat, I don't get what's the problem. I could even bring some more AoE dps by providing Goad to a spamming AoE physical ally as it was needing a lot of TP.

From what I've seen, it even made some people laugh to see it actually worked (and laughed in a good way, and btw, they often were the best geared players, but not only), some found it cool, the main part just didn't care at all and were like "no problem, mate" or "as long as it works, np", and very few actually raged for the simple reason I was Marauder ilvl 248 and thought I was so stupid I didnt even know I could do the level 30 quest to get the WAR crystal (and in the middle of the dungeon where I proved I could completely succeed this way, but nevermind). At 1rst I was just curious to know how far it would work. I was always like "ok next time it will be time to be WAR, I guess it won't work anymore", but it actually still did, so I stayed at Marauder.

I understand you see so many bad tanks to lose aggro and die and who don't know to follow a strat that you don't want to waste time to give it a try to a Marauder. But if it works that well, I don't see the problem.

Of course, now I've lost all my cross skills, there is no way it works anymore (we can still get the 10 action role skills instead of 5 but it's irrelevant, now), so I won't go play with my Marauder anymore, it's just kind of a trophy thing to me and those who know me, who met me.

PS : Hi to all those who told me WAR do more dmg than MRD under lvl 52. Hi to all those who told me I would have access to Storm's Eye/Storm's Path/Vengeance if I was WAR. Hi to those who told me it was impossible.

Special mention to that one healer I met, spamming AoE heals suddenly on purpose after getting I was Marauder, until getting top enmity and being like "look I have aggro" and who then told us "then I go in full Cleric Stance and I will only DPS" and let everyone died.

[bswpayton]

DO NOT EXPECT HEALERS AND TANKS TO DPS!!! That is not their role. Tanks are the meat shields that hold the aggro so that the boss doesn't decide to try eat the beatsticks that you are, and healers generally make sure everyone is topped off and provides some group buffs to help with DPS and damage mitigation. If the boss is like 10% or 5%HP expect both tanks and maybe 1 healer to DPS to burn boss down.


EDIT: For you STR tanks that may or may not lurking on DPS forums, this also directed at you... You know who you are... Also if you guys communicate with your group to reach an understanding of what to do in fights you know how to do good for you.

you do realize how easy it is to hold argo in ur tank stance and spam your argoo combo we already dont have enough tanks you just want to makke them the most boring job in the game

[Dymnos]

Do not expect tanks to dps??

Then how do I keep all this aggro without dps-ing??

/s

[PK_THUNER]

However I will post a thread to tell tanks to stop worrying about their own DPS numbers and worry about holding aggro since that is their role.

Lol. Holding agro is the easy part. What I want to know is why is there so many dps with sub par dps in ex. I have been in a party where all 4 dps doing under 1500 dps. There's no way you can clear ex Susano like that. As a tank I'm doing 1800 - 2300 with vit gear! Dps should be at 2800 -4000. But the worst of seen was a tank in shinryu with 450 dps and couldn't hold agro at all. It's amazing how he even got to shinryu in the first place.

[Inuk9]

Yes you can.

No you can't.

No you can't and yes you can. If you show a log to a gm because people kicked you out of a dungeons for not dpsing as healer, they can get suspended. Saw it happens more than 1 time. You can believe what you want tho.

[Tsilyi]

The GM will never tell you the result of your report though, so you'd have to have hearsay from the person you reported or someone who knows them.

[Fannah]

But maybe he has people he knows who have been suspended for reporting such and the GM will certainly tell you why you are suspended.

[KingFrost]

Why is this a thing? Is it really EVER that serious? I have to assume this is only speaking of DF since anything midcore up doesn't even have these issues of "You must deeps" since it's a requirement to even stay on a team.

If it's a daily or random dungeon, seriously, who cares if a healer just stands there of the tank doesn't stance dance/optimize deeps? Is it suboptimal? Yeah, no doubt, but are they fulfilling their function? If so, you'll beat the dungeon, and any kick is gonna waste more time than if you just shrugged it off and kept playing like it isn't that serious (Which it isn't).

[Taika]

If it's a daily or random dungeon, seriously, who cares if a healer just stands there of the tank doesn't stance dance/optimize deeps? Is it suboptimal? Yeah, no doubt, but are they fulfilling their function? If so, you'll beat the dungeon, and any kick is gonna waste more time than if you just shrugged it off and kept playing like it isn't that serious (Which it isn't).

To be honest, I'd rather spend more time waiting for a new healer or just leave and eat the penalty than carry someone who isn't willing to put in any effort.

[Fannah]

I must admit that looking at someone who is just not playing is really boring, it really feels like someone is actually chatting on facebook and sometimes here to check everything's fine on his double screen.
I don't see why someone should get more time for IRL things by stealing this time to the 3 others as it would be way faster if they just use damaging skills. It's not like they were representing about 15-20% of the total dmg... In a 20minutes dungeons, it's several more minutes for those 3 other people doing their best to make the run faster.