To the DPS META and please be reasonable with arguments

[Taika]

If it's a daily or random dungeon, seriously, who cares if a healer just stands there of the tank doesn't stance dance/optimize deeps? Is it suboptimal? Yeah, no doubt, but are they fulfilling their function? If so, you'll beat the dungeon, and any kick is gonna waste more time than if you just shrugged it off and kept playing like it isn't that serious (Which it isn't).

To be honest, I'd rather spend more time waiting for a new healer or just leave and eat the penalty than carry someone who isn't willing to put in any effort.

[Fannah]

I must admit that looking at someone who is just not playing is really boring, it really feels like someone is actually chatting on facebook and sometimes here to check everything's fine on his double screen.
I don't see why someone should get more time for IRL things by stealing this time to the 3 others as it would be way faster if they just use damaging skills. It's not like they were representing about 15-20% of the total dmg... In a 20minutes dungeons, it's several more minutes for those 3 other people doing their best to make the run faster.

[NovaLevossida]

When I'm getting hit in the face and my Fire IVs are getting interrupted with Lucid/Diversion having been used on cooldown, maybe you need to tank better because it's a net DPS loss when I'm not dropping magical bombs on the target.

That said, if you are tanking, do as much DPS as you want. I'll never be offended by efficiency.

[DRKoftheAzure]

When I'm getting hit in the face and my Fire IVs are getting interrupted with Lucid/Diversion having been used on cooldown, maybe you need to tank better because it's a net DPS loss when I'm not dropping magical bombs on the target.

That said, if you are tanking, do as much DPS as you want. I'll never be offended by efficiency.

Then stop using AoEs and you wouldn't lose AS MUCH DPS! Simple as that. Tanks have hard time holding aggro on trash mobs to the point where it is better for that 1 guy spamming AoE spells while also needing to focus down 1 target to let healer do more than just healing even in big pulls!

[KDSilver]

Savage is Tuesday.
If I have time to dps when I'll understand the mecanics and see when are the downtimes I will.

Not my type to sit and watch.
+ I want to be as efficient as possible for my group.

And we all are expecting us to provide a good performance to beat the new savage.
So nope nope nope.

[FallenShadows]

So is there an argument here about losing agro because you're dpsing too much as a tank? I find that highly irrelevant, I'm able to run through everything basically "pushing" my dps, even as main tank, and agro is the least of my concerns. Its more of "Can I stay alive with this..."

[Zohnax]

DO NOT EXPECT HEALERS AND TANKS TO DPS!!! That is not their role. Tanks are the meat shields that hold the aggro so that the boss doesn't decide to try eat the beatsticks that you are, and healers generally make sure everyone is topped off and provides some group buffs to help with DPS and damage mitigation. If the boss is like 10% or 5%HP expect both tanks and maybe 1 healer to DPS to burn boss down.

This is ignorant and rude for you to get on here and tell people what their roles are when you did not design them. How does a healer or tank progress through solo instances with only healing and only holding aggro and taking damage? They don't; they DPS. It's also very naive of you to think that tanks and healers have enough potential burst DPS to burn down a boss from 10~5% HP. That kind of contribution comes from DPS'ing as applicable from throughout the entire fight.

Then stop using AoEs and you wouldn't lose AS MUCH DPS! Simple as that. Tanks have hard time holding aggro on trash mobs to the point where it is better for that 1 guy spamming AoE spells while also needing to focus down 1 target to let healer do more than just healing even in big pulls!

No, tanks just need to learn to hold hate better. I did it just fine while leveling DRK before they buffed enmity. In fact, the only time I lost aggro is when a RDM would burst one mob, but that's what provoke and more hate combos are for. In fairness to tanks, it would be more convenient if the Enemy List should Enmity for each mob as it does in the Party List, rather than having to target them individually.

Also, from your first post to this one, suddenly you're worried about healers being able to do more? That's a bit hypocritical and really undermines your entire argument.

Long story short: There are higher levels of skill in playing roles/jobs. Just because you may not want to work to achieve higher levels, doesn't mean others should be scrutinized for doing so or that it's wrong.

[Ventok]

While I think OP expressed it terribly, I get the sentiment behind this thread. I think tanks and healers should DPS during downtime/rotation, but it's when DPS expectations are forced on them is where the problem comes in.

I play tanks to be a meat shield, to be a wall and to laugh at any damage thrown at me. But I've met too many players who grief me or other tanks when the tank doesn't get X amount of DPS numbers in ACT. Sure, in Savage where a slim margin exists between success and enrage, it's warranted. But in Expert roulette, players should feel free to DPS as comfortably as they like (which is where I've seen those types of interactions).

It's a small amount of times I've seen this happen, but it's silly to expect DPS numbers out of a non DPS role in anything but Savage and maybe Extreme.

[Lyrai_Celestine]

While I think OP expressed it terribly, I get the sentiment behind this thread. I think tanks and healers should DPS during downtime/rotation, but it's when DPS expectations are forced on them is where the problem comes in.

I have this sentiment too. Being used to DPSing as a Healer who can alternate seamlessly between healing and DPSing, there are times when the healer does nothing to help the DPS and just stood there, and I too, sometimes ask for my healer to at least try use a DPS spell when I am in good health as a Tank. Just one or two DPS spells instead of standing still and I'm happy enough personally ^^

But I've met too many players who grief me or other tanks when the tank doesn't get X amount of DPS numbers in ACT. Sure, in Savage where a slim margin exists between success and enrage, it's warranted.

This is strange. So far on my Primal EX runs no one bashes me for not doing enough DPS as a Tank. I tried using a DPS stance in Susano EX. It works, but if the healer is being overwhelmed, I'd rather stay in Tank Stance and survive better. I should not expect "Savage hardcore level healers" in places like these anyway

[Fannah]

I have this sentiment too. Being used to DPSing as a Healer who can alternate seamlessly between healing and DPSing, there are times when the healer does nothing to help the DPS and just stood there, and I too, sometimes ask for my healer to at least try use a DPS spell when I am in good health as a Tank. Just one or two DPS spells instead of standing still and I'm happy enough personally ^^

+1, no one annoys healers to just dps in a basic way. What we hate is to see someone acting like speaking on facebook or watching a movie on his second screen while others are carrying him using the argument of being healer.