Remove Frontline experiece NOW - Group majority of bots

[kikix12]

That said, let's not make competitiveness sound like a bad thing.

I didn't. You exaggerate on what I said. I repeatedly use words like "tend to" or "frequent", while you seem to take them as absolutes. They're not.
And I did clearly state what competitiveness is at its core. That means, that it is the foundation of what competitiveness defines. However, I also said that it's not a vacuum. Pure and blue competitiveness does not exist, just like pure and blue kindness, egoism, love or just about anything else. However, the fundaments are important. And yes, there ARE players for which it's not fun. They are often the sort that are pressured into being the best as they grow up, and they tend to force upon themselves that even against common sense. I've met a lot of such people over the years in various games. Even winning may not be fun for them, and not winning is just terrible. It is a lot more prevalent than you seem to think.

Everything, competitiveness as well, have its good and bad sides, cause everything is what people make of it. Just how anger or pain are fundamentally important aspects for humans survival, despite in the everyday life being complained about, or how love can lead to extreme tragedies, despite being written on by poets as the most wonderful thing in life.

(...)but being competitive doesn't mean you're not having fun. Competition itself can be part of the fun.

I never said otherwise. Please stop seeing "absolutes" where they do not exist. Especially since you doing that in the first place is what provoked me to respond. This and nothing more.

That kind of defeatist mentality was not present in PvP before they added XP as a reward, and it has no place there, competitive or not, XP or not. But it can't be overlooked that it became an issue once XP was offered, and that's a reason why some players who actually want to enjoy PvP want to see XP removed.

I've seen it even before. What may have changed is how it's prevalent from the get-go rather than three or so minutes into the fight. As I said, I literally met people that decided the team can't win and decided to "give up" waiting for the time to pass...or even threw themselves as fodder. They may not have been doing that for experience, but to try again in a different team composition sooner, but it doesn't change the fact that it did happen. Just maybe not as often.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Not speaking in absolutes, just rounding things out where they aren't.

I however remain steadfast in saying a defeatist mentality has no place in a competitive environment. Go ask any athlete if it makes sense at all to just give up or let the other team win. I say that having been in plenty of those landslide matches against groups like the infamous Balmung and Gilgamesh premades. I say that having directed teams to fight hard and turn around a match that seemed a guaranteed win for the other teams. I say that knowing the difference that being competitive in a competitive environment can make. I've seen those same things you mentioned, and while it's infuriating to see, I often choose to rally and push a team if I have to. Sometimes, all people need is someone to step up and lead. But that will never happen if ideas like "just give up and let the other team win so you can try again sooner" are left to stand. Do that, and you'll be throwing matches and losing all the time just waiting for that big chance that'll never come unless you take it.

Pressure is a bit irrelevant as there isn't, and shouldn't be any pressure involved at all. It's a game. You play it to enjoy it. If competition isn't enjoyable, don't do it. We've covered the fact that there are different and more bountiful XP options, and this is why I take the hardline approach to it. PvP went from shunned and avoided to suddenly everyone's XP cash cow. You got people wanting the reward, but neither being skilled or competitive enough for it, nor wanting to be. Sure, it doesn't take any kind of peak performance to do well in PvP, but when so few even meet the bar, and don't want to learn because they're "just here for the XP" that's no good for anyone. I mean, the same rules apply in PvE as well. Want the loot at the end of the instance? Make effort. Pull your weight. No pressure, that's just the minimum expectation of anyone.