The change to PvP has been amazing

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

snip

We certainly have different views on PvP, if not the game as a whole, and it's hardly the first time. Granted, part of the reason I came to love PvP so much again was because outside of raiding, everything else had become so braindead like you said. There's really no "expert" in Expert roulettes, and PotD is. . . well, it is what it is. You can't control circumstance. I've been in many a match without a healer. A few times I've stepped up to BECOME the healer (but I know I'm simply best at being an attacker). I've been in many situations where I knew I wasn't gonna win, but if anything, it only bolstered my fighting spirit. More importantly, there's never been a situation where I went into battle thinking "I know I'm not gonna win." And after some of the crazy wins I've pulled off, it's even harder to ever think that way.

The best advice I can give is to literally keep trying. Even if you're losing. Even if you have no heals. Even if no one's listening. You'll be surprised what you pull off. You saw the story I shared before, the one about getting the team to keep fighting to a draw. We weren't guaranteed a win at any point, even when we had the early lead. But if we gave up after both other teams tried to crush us, we'd have definitely lost. But we didn't. Sometimes it takes that one person to take action, and others will follow.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Your giving up section is what I experienced, a lot, before the xp change.

Now they just don't even try to rally because unless its a table flip to a win getting second place or a draw is worthless, you only get as much xp as a win from 3 levels ago.

Also, how is warning about ninja cappers and people trying to flank the base TOS violations?

And,the Adders on Aether, I am one of them, consistently lose. Even with freelancers. About 70% of the time we lose based on my experience.

I experienced the opposite; more people either not giving a damn or AFKing because there was no incentive whatsoever to win. The issue now is the devs didn't incentivize coming in a second. If one team pulls too far ahead, there's little reason to keep trying for a lot of people.

Before this change this, I had people outright admit in chat they only cared about EXP when told to get ice. "Who cares? You can the same EXP anyway."

you can be as much a tryharder as you want,

You want first ? Alright. I want to have fun. Why should your pleasure come before mine ?

What in Third's post insinuated otherwise? She isn't being a try hard, but doesn't want to have people who aren't trying period to queue into Frontlines just to leech. Per your example, if I have someone in a farm party for Omega Savage and they clearly have no idea what they're doing, I'll kick them. You can certainly have fun-- only so much so that it doesn't impede the content itself. If you're only reason for queuing into Frontlines is EXP. Don't be surprised if people get annoyed.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Yeah, well, no.

Feast, you're competing, that's kinda the purpose of it... But Frontlines ? There's no ranking whatsoever, so yeah, you can be as much a tryharder as you want, but remember that most people around you are... I don't know how to phrase it. Just regular people wanting to have fun ? You don't force anyone doing Omega to rush Omega Savage, do you ? Then why would you take 23 people hostage of your ambition ? Yeah, I want to win in PvP, even in frontlines, when it didn't matter, because that's a good reward in itself. But your blood-hungry-elitist point of view is seriously a big "Nope" to me, and if someones tries to pull me in by giving me a speech like that... At best, it won't change a thing, at worst, I'll just be willing to throw. Especially, and I don't know if that's your case, if the one giving the speech is constantly harassing players that aren't used to PvP, or that try but do bad strats... I often meet people like those, and they never help in any way.

You want first ? Alright. I want to have fun. Why should your pleasure come before mine ?

Allow me to give this my full attention for a moment.

Let me first refute the fun claim. This is a competitive mode in an online game. Is it not more fun when you win a game? The "I play for fun" bit is a tired excuse for not trying or learning and needs to be put down. You don't HAVE to be good. You don't even have to win. But if you're in a competition and you're not trying to win, what are you doing?

Next, the elitist bit. . . I have come a VERY long way from what I was when I started. I got no heals, no backup, no one knew who I was, and I lacked the awareness and experience to really be of much help. I was lucky to score a kill or two, and maybe survive long enough to make it to objectives to try and help my team score. I've faced some pretty rough situations too. The infamous "Balmung Premades" the Gilgamesh premades, the Cactaur pigs, and I've been crushed by them over and over. The one thing I didn't do was roll over and expect or accept defeat. I am VERY proud to be as good as I am. And I'm proud to have taught others, help build a PvP community on my server, learn to support my team - friends or randoms equally, rally my team where and when they were ready to give up, and to be a welcome sight/priority target to others when I show up in a match. Do not EVER call me an elitist. I am the very antithesis of one.

Next, you say you're willing to throw if someone tries to call the shots. Have you considered that perhaps that player sees something you don't or is experienced enough to know that if you push that objective, you may miss a better opportunity? Or that you don't NEED that objective? Or that pushing it will put you in a bad position? Case in point: In Shatter, ice spawns in the SE corner of the map and we have the Owl's Nest as a base. There's a team already moving in from the center, and our team's about to jump off the cliff to get there first. . . Why do I say "don't jump off the cliff"? Because when you land, you'll be at half health, and it’d be easy for them to just finish you off and take the ice anyways. Free points AND ice for the other team. P.S. take the side path that every large ice area has to get there safely next time. . . People aren't just trying to boss other players around. Maybe some, but by and large, most players who understand the game mode better are trying to make calls that will help the team to win.

Lastly - and to no surprise, I said this earlier - there's nothing wrong with not being the best. There's nothing wrong with not understanding what to do and when to do it. I started there. Anyone who's good started there. They listened to other players who knew and backed them up rather than growing defiant or willfully throwing the match as if to strike back at that person. Believe me, they lost plenty to get where they are. And if they're still there competing and trying to win, that does nothing to them. There's everything wrong with giving up, or trying to excuse not being good or ever even learning with "I'm just playing for fun". Show some competitive spirit. You're not always going to win. But winning is always more fun.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

What in Third's post insinuated otherwise? She isn't being a try hard, but doesn't want to have people who aren't trying period to queue into Frontlines just to leech. Per your example, if I have someone in a farm party for Omega Savage and they clearly have no idea what they're doing, I'll kick them. You can certainly have fun-- only so much so that it doesn't impede the content itself. If you're only reason for queuing into Frontlines is EXP. Don't be surprised if people get annoyed.

You do realize there are six lines of text between the two parts you quoted ? And that I repeatedly said I do want to win, despite leveling up doing frontlines ? That's a really nice way to make it seem like I'm the bad guy, yet, that's not the case... Especially because there's no bad guy, we're all doing our thing, and sometimes we're in conflict, but most of the time, we're just kindly living together... But yeah... Don't argue with someone when you don't respect others enough to read their whole post without feeling the urge to deform what they say so you end up looking better...

But yeah, some people are here to xp, yet they also want to win, YET they don't really care. They play because they like playing, and think AFKing is plain stupid, but they won't desperately try. I never forfeit, but when you cross the line between "being a strategist that tries to win" and "being bossy", the fun quickly fades...


And Third, i did read your text, and yeah, I was too quick to judge you, I reacted too much, I apologize.

But. As much as I want to win, and as much as I respect people that can see things better than I do (and there sure are, I'm a seasoned pvp player, but I've never been someone that tries too much), I don't feel the need to win everytime. Sometimes, I just want to play with people, coordinate with them, make friends with my team, all of it while actively trying to win. But I won't tell the alliance to do whatever they can to win, because that's not a competitive mode. There's no ranking, no reward, nothing. If they ever give a frontlines competitive mode, which may be a fantastic thing, and I try it, I will commit to it. But as long as it is not the case, I may have more fun playing in a chill way, and so I will.

I'm trying to win, just not as hard. And no, winning doesn't mean more fun, at least for me... I'd rather have a nice alliance with which I can joke, even when things turn sour, than an alliance of people just insulting each other...

Maybe I feel this way because I'm competitive on other games, that I won't name here, and FFXIV is kind of my "chill game", at least for pvp, but the thing is, I'm not the only one that feels that way...

[Katryn]

The moment you sign up for a piece of group content you are confirming that your time belongs to the group. If you aren't going to do your best--which does not have to mean being the best, since there will always be someone better and worse--why the hell are you there? Excellence is always welcome, but effort should never be optional.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Yeah, well, as Third said, we do not share the same point of view on the game...

And if you consider being friendly as "not being serious enough to do the job", I'm proud of being not serious enough... I contribute a lot to my frontlines and feast, and I am friendly and try to joke with others doing so, because many people feel like pvp is way too serious, and I get why.

I do hope for you all that you're going to enjoy pvp, but you're not doing any kind of good publicity to the frontlines right now.

And please, don't tell me I don't commit enough to the team, when I spend a lot of times helping others on dedicated linkshells and so. I'm sure you are all admirable, or at least, I'm sure that Third is respectable, but don't assume someone is a bad teamplayer or whatever because he plays the game differently...

[Dizhonor]

But do these changes really stop those people from AFKing? No, not really. They will still afk because free EXP is still free. But for people who PVPed for the EXP now have less incentive to, me included.

It's not to stop people from AFK'ing. You still get XP.

As an Aether Adder I may as well give up since loss xp is equal to 3 levels ago before the change. Squarely securing potd as a superior source of xp. The good news is that since the change to pvp xp I have been noticing a much faster stabilization of que times for DPS for dungeons. Now instead of 30+ minutes I am getting into dungeons in 10-15 minutes.

POTD XP is capped post 60. And you still get more XP post 60 for 3rd place in Frontline.

And, the Adders on Aether, I am one of them, consistently lose. Even with freelancers. About 70% of the time we lose based on my experience.

Groups are dynamic. Have you considered that you may have something to do with your group losing? Have you considered that Adders win when you aren't in it?

Yeah, I would rather have the current win xp.

Then win.

I have to disagree , the experience from losing suckks and now its gona make leveling dps take that much longer thanks I guess SE (and I never didnt try or went afk in any match your just not gona win pvp very much so yea it sucks losing all that exp)

Then win.

This nerf should of come after the new potd came out as this was the best way to level a dps,, we have 15 jobs and alot of people like to play them all , sometimes it just doesnt seem like SE knows what its doing. We should of had a better leveling method for dps anyway instead of pvp to begin with now they nerf pvp before we have anythiing else makes no sense at all to me

That's exactly right. Frontline wasn't meant to be an alternative to long PVE DPS queue times.

As far as I can tell, when I read the comments made here, this change has done more harm to PvP than anything else, as, right now, people seem to not care as long as they're seeming to lose. And, btw, as much as I believe in what ThirdChild said, the people throwing are the ones that don't care... the ones that don't read the forum either... So yeah, we all agree on that, but that won't change the fact that many people will be throwing, because they just want it to end quickly so they can get another match that's more rewarding, as they will be winning that one... I usually stand with SE, I think they do many great things, including what they do with the datacenters and the queues, but poor decision making such as 2 DPS for Stormblood, and now this is poor decision making.

The queue times are the same. People are still doing Frontline. So, no, this change hasn't done "harm to PVP." But it has harmed the PVE players who were abusing Frontline to level their PVE DPS alts. As you can see from the comments, those are the people who are complaining.

[Dizhonor]

The moment you sign up for a piece of group content you are confirming that your time belongs to the group. If you aren't going to do your best--which does not have to mean being the best, since there will always be someone better and worse--why the hell are you there? Excellence is always welcome, but effort should never be optional.

This is pretty common sense. Well said. And let's be real: anyone who thinks otherwise should consider playing single player games...

[Tharia]

This is pretty common sense. Well said. And let's be real: anyone who thinks otherwise should consider playing single player games...

Speaks the Guy with the level 60 Tank gear and wanted to have PVP XP changed because 'HE' had no fun. Not get it wrong but you still sound like a hypocryte on that whole topic.

[Korihu]

I think it is fine like this. I love PvP but it should never have been the prime way to level. It should always have been just a fun way to level on the side when you get sick of PvE or that little extra bonus that the avid PvPers get as they play the game mode they always enjoyed.

Afkers will afk regardless, but at least this way people don't feel 'forced' to play a game mode they may not enjoy and thus may never really put in the effort to try to learn the mode and win.bthat was a complaint on the JP forum too, that people would come in and not give their best because "same exp regardless".

Besides people saying that tying things to win in Frontlines will destroy things but practically every other reward in Frontlines has been from winning, including the very recent garo event.

The game mode won't die and the only people I've seen that think it will are people who never or barely played PvP prior to 4.0. In fact Frontlines is still plenty active.
Remember the main thing that made queues so long before was the lack of freelancing. Everyone knew this since a larger GC team would be stuck waiting 30+minutes while a smallergc team got instapops. Between freelancing and all the new players garo and 4.0 brought in who realise they enjoy the mode, and 400 wins worth of mounts and other achievement goodies to get, the mode will be active for some time yet.

I played some number of games yesterday when it was the dead of night and queues were still instant and I felt like people were putting more effort. It was fun win or lose. But even if the queues were longer, I'd rather it be longer than have a bunch of players in it who don't even try. Sucks all the enjoyment out.