Why is crafting/gathering so difficult/grindy?

[Rohirrim]

If these kind of "annoyances" where not part of the system everyone and their mother would have all crafts and gatherings levels and there would be no market.

Exactly. Crafting is supposed to be a niche on this game tha few people would bother... otherwise items wouldnt worth a dim and if crafting was easy so everyone would have it then i doubt we would have good itens to craft like now...

[Maeka]

When I talk about "time" to take crafting, I'm talking about the ridiculous numbers of materials.

Let's say a spear pops up on either GC or Scrip turn-in. I want to make said spear.

The spear requires, say, 3 ingots, a potion, two wood (most likely enchanted wood, which requires another potion), glue, leather, and some sort of bone/jewel/whatever.

I mean, seriously? The ingots also need nuggets. So..

3 Ingots = 6 synths, minimum. That's assuming the ingot only wants 1 nugget per.
Potion = I don't even know what goes into a Dissolvent.. but I'm willing to bet that's 3-4 synths.
Wood = 1 Synth per wood, 2 if it's enchanted (holy/hallowed/whatever)
Leather = 1
Jewel = 1

So you're looking at what, gathering at least 10 different materials and doing 12, 14, maybe 16 synths for ONE turn-in? You're talking a whole RL hour or more trying to procure all of these materials (or pay the absolutely ridiculous prices on MB for them).

It's just getting out of this world ridiculous.

And when it comes to leves... you get a piddly (at Lv58-ish) 150k out of an NQ turn-in. If you can HQ, you get 300k.

Meanwhile, three Moogle Quests is 1,500,000 XP and takes 10 minutes. But sadly, that's once per day.

[Frizze]

Potion = I don't even know what goes into a Dissolvent.. but I'm willing to bet that's 3-4 synths.

I can see why you would think this, but it actually isnt the case. As of this writing, all the grades of dissolvent/reisui are single synth products. They use a combination of mined botanied fished and hunted mats(some more annoying then others), but all mats are unrefined. Of course, since these ingredients are only ever used in combat gear you end up with plenty of other steps to go through.

[Synestra]

So you're looking at what, gathering at least 10 different materials and doing 12, 14, maybe 16 synths for ONE turn-in? You're talking a whole RL hour or more trying to procure all of these materials (or pay the absolutely ridiculous prices on MB for them).

I always keep finished materials stocked up on my retainers to avoid this hassle.

[Shadygrove]

I had no problems with either crafting nor gathering when I first landed in Ishgard.

But I exited 2.56 with fully melded BiS crafting and gathering gear. It was good to L 55 or 56. if you didn't get the iL60 Artisan's set, there is a L51, iL65 set that beats the Artisan's set even in NQ.

Also 5 levels in ARR = 2 levels in HW as far as dificulty scaling.

[MistakeNot]

I had no problems with either crafting nor gathering when I first landed in Ishgard.

But I exited 2.56 with fully melded BiS crafting and gathering gear. It was good to L 55 or 56. if you didn't get the iL60 Artisan's set, there is a L51, iL65 set that beats the Artisan's set even in NQ.

Also 5 levels in ARR = 2 levels in HW as far as dificulty scaling.

With top-of-the-line gear from ARR it won't be difficult at all getting started with HW crafting/gathering.
Most people today won't have that though. They will have reached level 50, done the level 50 class quest and got the rewards from that and otherwise have levelling gear.
At that point there is a HUGE gap up to what is needed for the level 51+ stuff.
And that is where many people find it difficult - they don't want to do the ARR endgame grinding for gear just to be able to continue levelling.

[Frizze]

With top-of-the-line gear from ARR it won't be difficult at all getting started with HW crafting/gathering.
Most people today won't have that though. They will have reached level 50, done the level 50 class quest and got the rewards from that and otherwise have levelling gear.
At that point there is a HUGE gap up to what is needed for the level 51+ stuff.
And that is where many people find it difficult - they don't want to do the ARR endgame grinding for gear just to be able to continue levelling.

Theres a crafting mechanic behind this that isnt well explained in game, but that the community has worked out. Simply put, your level(in addition to your stats) is compared to the level of the craft when determining progress and quality increases. At lower levels, the effect is small. Once you get to 50 and beyond the difference becomes much more significant. This is where ingenuity 2 earns its keep(and ingenuity to a lesser extent), as treating the recipe as a lower level for the next few steps means your skills(especially progress related) work at a much more efficient pace. So using your skills can help.

Of course, theres an easy solution to this as well. You dont have endgame gear? Dont worry about it. At level 50, make level 50 recipes(only going to 51s if youre prepared for it to be harder). Once you get level 51, upgrade to the level 51 crafting set. Now you have the stats to keep going and you didnt grind for any extra gear.

[Maeka]

Of course, theres an easy solution to this as well. You dont have endgame gear? Dont worry about it. At level 50, make level 50 recipes(only going to 51s if youre prepared for it to be harder). Once you get level 51, upgrade to the level 51 crafting set. Now you have the stats to keep going and you didnt grind for any extra gear.

Except for the fact that the Lv51 NQ sets the vendors sell are woefully under-tuned. It's still ridiculously hard even with this gear.

For example, my Lv63 gatherers are wearing NQ Stormblood gear and I still only have 70% success and like 2-3% HQ chance on gathering Lv61 junk. And as I'm sure everybody knows, 70% success actually means 80% fail, because you will quite often get 2-3 fails in a row on 70%.

I remember back during HW, my Lv51-52 crafters I got up with Moogles, I was excited to finally be able to wear HW Gear! Then I try a Lv51 recipe, and it takes 5-6 Careful Synths just to fill the progress bar in, and I'm like "this is kinda ridiculous."

Now, I am doing Zhloe turnins, but I find that crafting anything else in HW is far harder than it should be, especially anything worth any scrips. And of course, wouldn't you know it, you ONLY get scrips (and a paltry amount) out of stuff your level if you try doing the daily collectables. I suppose it's Forbidden that you craft anything below your level to earn Red Scrips, so you're stuck with Zhloe once a week to try to gear up because everything gives 0 scrips except for things your level (then you get 10-40 per turn-in which is barely worth mentioning).

It almost seems like they should have made everything in HW as comparable challenge as the things needed to make for Zhloe. The collectables feel about right, challenge-wise.

As for Ingenuity (2), uh... there's the problem of CP. If you blow ridiculous amounts of CP on Ingenuity, you won't have much to spend on everything else you need. Though it would help if it were to last longer than 3-5 steps.

I understand your frustration if you don't have a lot of time. But if you don't enjoy the time you do spend on gathering mats and then crafting them, then I'd suggest this aspect of the game isn't for you?

I like gathering materials.... I don't like constantly being barely able to gather with lots of fails in-between even when I'm wearing relevant-level gear. I like crafting materials, but I don't like doing 10+ synths per one single end product when they seemingly expect you to make dozens per single levelup. Then you get a situation where it takes longer to level a crafting class than it does to level a combat class, I'd bet you could level a DPS class faster than a DoH.

I feel the Lv40-49 crafts were about right, as far as challenge and number of materials you needed to collect goes. Those recipes were more sensible (well except for that whole velveteen crap I always hated, at least until you got Sylphs ranked up to bypass most of it).

[OoglieBooglie]

I remember back during HW, my Lv51-52 crafters I got up with Moogles, I was excited to finally be able to wear HW Gear! Then I try a Lv51 recipe, and it takes 5-6 Careful Synths just to fill the progress bar in, and I'm like "this is kinda ridiculous."

That's why there are skills like muscle memory, piece by piece, and rapid synthesis. There's also the name+brand thing. I've hit over 1000 progress with that thing, even at lvl 60.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

At that point there is a HUGE gap up to what is needed for the level 51+ stuff.
And that is where many people find it difficult - they don't want to do the ARR endgame grinding for gear just to be able to continue levelling.

Its not that difficult to do a bunch of otherwise useless Darksteel Nuggets, Spruce Lumber, etc - the level 51 one-star items are ideal to grind out from 50 to 51. Not to mention the various manuals and/or FC buffs that bump exp.