Red mage, samurai, black mage, lets discuss balance.

[Elspeth]

Hi there,

First of all this

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

ok

(need more characters)

[Elspeth]

Hi there,

For some reason can\\'t edit the post.

Anyway, this is just a constructive view of balance in general, first of all I\\'m a red mage, really enjoy it, it\\'s fun.

I\\'m seeing a lot of weird hate for jobs like red mage and samurai and the common phrase is, "please nerf this it\\'s overpowered"

Now let\\'s start by saying that red mage does have a decent cure in vercure, however in dps terms (because rdm is a dps) it\\'s not overpowered, yes you can help a healer out if one goes down but your giving up dps time in order to do so. That\\'s a fair trade off.

Embolden is good and made better depending on pt composition. Embolden is strongest when with 3 physical dps, each additional caster weakens the effect. It\\'s also important to note that it decays pretty quickly so while buffs like blood for blood are s flat rate for thier duration, embolden detetiorates.

[Elspeth]

Samurai is currently showing the highest numbers. It has no utility, this doesn\\'t make the job overpowered, it has for the damage it does solo being so high it doesn\\'t provide party increases.

Black Mage... needs to be BUFFED. (I don\\'t play blm) but objectively it is the same as samurai, high solo damage, low/no raid utility. A good blm can out damage a red mage, blm does suffer if it has to move a lot, and because of this it does have self mitigation and teleports. Blm should be the hardest hitting caster.

Summoner, has some interesting stuff going on, I hear that it\\'s rotation isn\\'t very fluid and that needs to be looked at, but one of the major things I see argued is "Summoners complexity means it should be doing much more dps" difficulty is subjective and can\\'t be used as a balance tool, smn probably should do more damage, but complexity is a null point.

[Elspeth]

So basically if your job has a metric ton of utility (bard) then it\\'s going to do lower damage, if it\\'s got no utility (blm and Sam) it\\'s going to be a powerhouse.

Finally... SE machinist? You know what you need to do...

[Verdan]

Red mage can't be a damage powerhouse and also have instant cures that scale and rez. That's the utility you're talking about.

[HyoMinPark]

The devs explicitly said that they designed SAM to be so powerful due to its complete lack of support utility (much to the outrage of MNKs because MNKs had virtually no utility outside of Mantra, and SE promised to fix that/not create another job with virtually no support). RDM was also advertised as being strong, but I don't think people realized how strong.

I don't think the way to fix jobs that have issues is to nerf others, because nerfing other jobs will not fix underlying issues some jobs may have (e.g., nerfing BRD is not going to fix the fustercluck that is MCH right now; nerfing AST to make SCH look better; etc.). But if the developers buff too much, everyone will be overtuned for content (prior to just blatantly out gearing it), which means the developers would need to scale the content with the buffs. But they can't make it "too hard" or people will demand nerfs (like the did for Ozma, Final Steps, and now Royal Menagerie). It's a balancing act, and I don't think the developers have quite figured it out yet.

[Elspeth]

Red mage does a lot of damage, but the reason I'm not considering vercure too much is you do have to give up gcds to use it. Now considering vercure, I believe physic should also scale off int for smn. For every cure a red mage throws out it loses dps. That's the trade off, same applies to a raise, the red Mage must stop dps to do that. For at least one gcd. Red mage has no dots either so it becomes 0% effective on any cure it throws out. Smn dots don't stop ticking, and it's pet doesn't stop attacking.

Monk, should be doing either as much damage as samurai, or slightly less, (since monk has utility(not much, but some)

Nothing should do more than Sam, I feel that's the limit.

[HoLoFoNo]

RDM is also derp to play and is very efficient. The issue people have is with its fairly high DPS ceiling coupled with its ease of use and flexibility means that it can achieve higher DPS that classes that have higher ceilings. The reason that BRD has a low ceiling apart from utility is its efficiency which is why BRD has always preformed well in fights since its conception. RDM is as flexible as BRD pretty much but does like 15% more damage. For example: (These are extremely rough approximations but they can work as a visual aid)

Lets say - (Generic fight with mechanics and shit)

BRD DPS: 3800, efficiency: 95%, effective DPS: 3610
DRG DPS: 4050, Efficiency: 85%, effective DPS: 3443
SMN DPS: 4400, Efficiency: 80%, effective DPS: 3520
SAM DPS: 4650, Efficiency: 92%, effective DPS: 4278
RDM DPS: 4400, Efficiency: 95%, effective DPS: 4180

These are pretty much asspull numbers however this highlights why certain DPS preform so well. This isn't factoring utility or lack thereof so you start to see why classes like RDM are targeted by the community nerf bat.

I don't really care about the other classes, I just want to see MCH, DRG, SMN and BLM get addressed but example graph just shows why these new classes are seen as too good (easy to play, not affected by mechanics, high dps ceiling)

[Vincent_Mateus]

I had to drop Dragoon for red Mage for upcoming progression, and Red Mage is infinitely easier, and does more dps. Embolden is a problem in my opinion because it essentially guarantees the red Mage the caster slot, because why would you bring another caster when they won't benefit from Embolden and have less utility. Verraise is going to be immeasurably useful in progression. I was helping with a SusanoEX learning party on my red Mage, and ressurected 9 people throughout the fight and still had MP to spare by keeping Lucid on CD. I don't care if the class is nerfed or not but it should be doing the lower damage of the casters when the utility comparison is made. If that means buffing summoner and black Mage, or nerfing Red Mage is up to SE