Thread: [SPOILERS] Revelations from Patch 4.01

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Also how does this tie in with WoD, since Cloud of Darkness is supposed to be the personification of the Void itself. The Rift from FF5 was just a fancy name for the Void, wasn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE0R3Grgj5g

At the very least it does seem like the Void is similar for them. As well I don't believe the XIV version of CoD is the "personifitcation" of the void, isn't she implied to be one of the WoL from the 13th shard that went mad with power due to auracite and primal energy?

On the multiverse theory here: Exdeath here is not the same as V Exdeath lore wise, that part is still seperate. Whether its Omega itself being one of the ones seen in V or because Exdeath is a fictional character here matters not, XIV Exdeath is a recreation by Omega. Same with any other boss for now. Its fanservice plain and simple (and I like it so much.) One thing I would like to point out is that in the GBA remake of V the bonus dungeon that contained Enuo also contained Neo Shinryu and a room with multiple copies of Omega as well as Omega MK II. I could actually see Omega's plan to get us to go full hero in his tests to "backfire" next raid tier...and then the raid tier after has Omega MK II arrive.

For something I don't think I saw anyone talk about here but I do find interesting: We can't understand Alpha. Everything else on Hydaelyn, including the Ascians, we can understand because of the Echo. Alpha however shows that this power of understanding is limited only to those bearing "Hydaelyn's soul". Now unless we end up facing even more aliens in the actual MSQ it probably won't matter but it is something to think about. Also means Middy and atleast his first brood could probably have secret conversations that we can't understand if he wanted, unless part of his pact with Hydaelyn was making his original language understandable by the Echo.

Oh and for anyone wondering Haukke Manor HM's final boss hasn't gotten a name change. Yet at least. Though given that she was apparently a fictional character yet at the same time a powerful succubus from another shard could actually work in the lore.

Think about it this way: lightsabers and phasers are fictional weapons from Star Wars and Star Trek, respectively. If someone were able to create one such weapon in reality, it wouldn't mean that series' cosmology has any more truth to it than before - it just means someone was able to take a fictional thing and make it real. Inventing a lightsaber wouldn't make the Force real, and developing a phaser wouldn't mean Vulcans would come from on high.

Same concept. Omega creating a simulacrum of Exdeath, explicitly stated to be a fictional being, proves nothing but that Omega is capable of creating simulacra of fictional beings - and that there is a legend of a being fitting FFV's Exdeath that exists on Hydaelyn.

As for Omega's goal with the test? Ehh... I'd wager it's figure out what allows us to overcome such impossible odds. It's a soulless machine that lacks creativity or self-determination - Omega is driven solely by its pre-programmed protocol, which is to find the most powerful being nearby, fight it, and grow stronger from the experience. As Midgardsormr notes, Omega's near omnipotence blinds people to the fact it cannot create anything original or imbue its creations with things it cannot understand - such as self-determination, the will to live, etc. Keeping it simple, the soulless machine seeks to understand the concept of heart / soul, since it believes acquiring one will make it more powerful. It puts us under emotional stress by harming Biggs and Wedge because it believes that will make us more powerful - which it does, suggesting Omega seeks to gain this power for itself since it allows us to overcome the odds being stacked against us. However Omega fails to grasp why, which is much more important. That's my hypothesis, at any rate.

It can't summon heroes because it doesn't understand what drives them - the will to live, devotion, love, friendship, etc.

Note that I am not saying all mechanical lifeforms in fiction are soulless. Omega clearly is though, with its lack of creativity and self-determination. Nor am I saying Omega's creations are incapable of obtaining independent will or self-determination, but that is likely not something Omega intends.

@Cilia: I really believe that their hints that the bosses are fictional characters is their way of telling us that they are not the real enemies. So I really liked your examples. Also if they would be the true thing, this would just mean way more work to make sure that there is no plot hole for this and the other games. Using their appearance as a nod towards the other games but letting them be fictional destroys any problem with canon facts.

Omega did talk about her not understanding how heroes could defeat nearly impossible enemies so she probably wants to find out what makes a hero stronger thus she hopes to get that power too. This is probably our purpose in the whole fight. Making us overcome our boundaries and with that show her how its done. But I believe that at the end, Omega would not be able to do that, simply because she is no true living being.

Until we receive a concrete statement from Square Enix, all theories are considered possible.

Using Cilia’s light sabers and phasers example and combining it with the multiverse theory, for the Real World (Earth) we have the following possibilities:
- Star Wars and Star Trek are absolute works of fiction, if we create light sabers and phasers they will be just fictional objects made real. The Force does not exist, there are no Vulcans.
- Star Wars and Star Treck are works of fiction on Earth but there exist other universes where the Force and Vulcans (or a concept/species similar to them) are real (objective truth). This still does not change the fact that for us earthlings the Force and Vulcans are fiction (subjective truth).
- And here come visitors from another universe (Omega), who have seen both those other universes and ours and start selling phasers. Which universe’s phasers are their products based upon?

From a lore perspective, is there any connection between the Exdeath we face in Omega and the Exdeath from FFV? Only Omega (and Square Enix) know. Maybe the latter still don’t know? Or want to keep the question open?

The only reason we know for sure that the hero Lightning who appeared in Eorzea is the Lightning from FFXIII is because Yoshida himself confirmed it.

While it's easy to assume that, due to Omega's near omnipotence, it is capable of dimension hopping and that's where it got the ideas for Halicarnassus and Exdeath from (literally from visiting V's world)... that remains unknown. According to Midgardsormr, it (like he) is "not of this star," meaning at the very least Omega is extraterrestrial. Whether or not it's extradimensional remains to be seen; until we know for sure it is, I would argue erring on the side of caution and going with what we know: that Halicarnassus and Exdeath are based on folktales on Hydaelyn, nothing more.

Omega states that its goal is to determine what allows us to overcome statistical disadvantages, then incorporate that into its evolution. As I argued before, this is likely a heart / soul, which is not something that can be obtained by simply desiring it or following protocol. It's a common theme with mechanical lifeforms: "What constitutes a soul? Can machines and other artificial lifeforms have souls?" The answer: often, but Omega is unlikely to grow one by following protocols to evolve. (Typically it requires going beyond mere programming, and again, despite Omega's near omnipotence all it's doing is following that programming.)

As for why we can't understand Alpha... well, we've never been able to understand beasts. That's Krile's shtick. More to the point and in regards to the whole soul business, I'd argue that Alpha presently lacks a soul for us to communicate with. He is, after all, nothing more than a cartoon chocobo created by Omega to lure us into its testing process. If we do gain the ability to speak with him using the Echo, that just proves Omega's creations can grow souls and move beyond their designated purpose. (Making Alpha the perfect counterpart to Omega: one weak and helpless, but possessing the one thing the nigh-omnipotent other cannot obtain.)

... mostly hypotheticals. Mostly. Sorry if I ruin the fun for everyone.

Originally Posted by Cilia

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I believe the reason why the Echo cannot be used on Alpha is maybe because he is a abnormal existence created from data by Omega with the personality being based on what it learned a "chocobo" is like from data it gathered.

We know so far the WoL is not the first Warrior of Light it has seen but since the player WoL is the most recent one thus he has chosen the Player WoL to be the test subject. Though it is a bit perplexing why it would choose now to study the Warrior of Light when it had generations of this data even before Shinryu appeared all the way back from other planets before it ended up in Eorzea with Midgar.

Though if anything I still get this feeling the Final Omega Raid may actually be Chaos FF1 since even in FF14 the legend of FF1 WoL and Chaos is considered the biggest tale that inspires many.