SMN - Most Glaring Issues

[Angry_Evil]

I did 10min summoner parse and 10min blm parse with same ilvl 318 gear and blm damage was around 4.6k dps and summoner 3.9k dps. I wonder what utility from summoner cover that 700 dps loss or am i playing this class totally wrong.

I don't see how we can play differently. Lining up things like in eirene snow guide... Even then for some reason my ping became worse in 4.0 and it's pretty hard for me to do 11-12 wyrmwaves cause of that in actual fights.
Funny how they easily boosted BLMs but didn't even acknowledge SMN problems. Speaking about neglect...
Also pretty telling even before 4.0 they spend a lot of time talking about BLMs changes on liveletter and didn't mention summoner except clip with bahamut.

If it wasn't for the penalty to LB for the same class, a 2x SMN setup would actually be kinda neat.

4x SMN, nonstop contagion all day erryday, hell with lb lol

[TheLenrir]

4x SMN, nonstop contagion all day erryday, hell with lb lol

"We Summon Together, We Bahamut Together, Into the depths of hell we go!"

[Dyvid]

I did 10min summoner parse and 10min blm parse with same ilvl 318 gear and blm damage was around 4.6k dps and summoner 3.9k dps. I wonder what utility from summoner cover that 700 dps loss or am i playing this class totally wrong.

No, you are right here. Buffs/Debuffs don't cover that kind of dps deficient. Since parsers don't really track utility as caster dps we can only estimate (unless you really want to go line per line) and even then it can't cover that huge of gap.

Eirene's guide is spot on when describing the SMN play design about revolving around Aetherflow cooldown and the glaring issues around this. Bascially you fester X 3 which put you at 15s, DWT puts you at 16s or 31s before AF. That's 29s of filler time to do something. Then the optimal way to use Bahamut is to wait for AF for Wyrmwave spam but this make even more filler time and messes up the smooth transition from DWT/DB phases to AF cooldown phases.

In the vein of that design I would suggest the following changes:

Dreadwyrm Trance: Add Spur effect to pets for increased dps.
Enhance Enkindle: Change to reset cast time after exiting Dreadwyrm Trance.
Ruin Mastery:: Change to 20% and upgrades ruin I, II, or III.
Ruin IV: Instant cast.

Things people will most likely hate
Demi-Bahamut:
*Change Wyrmwave to 2.5s recast, up potency to 200, add additional effect 30% to upgrade next Wyrmwave to Mega-Flare.
*Change Ahk Morn, change to 600 potency. additional effect: 100% chance the next Enkindle Bahamut will be upgraded to Tera-Flare
*Add Mega-Flare, 250 potency
*Add Tera-Flare, 800 potency
*Add Party Buff Eikon's Favor: All party members receive Direct Hit increase for 20s.
*Add Summoner buff: Increases magic damage dealt by 10% while lowering the MP cost of Ruin III.
*Lock-out Aetherflow during Bahamut summon. The reason is reduce the clunky nature of the current design, reduce large gaps of AF filler space, and reduce wait time to summon Bahamut.

The idea behind the Demi change was simply looking at it as the ultimate upgrade of DWT rather than a simple upgrade to Egi. You need to adjust in a way that merges both Egi and DWT into one but balance it out so you don't need AF to maximize damage. Ideally you would recast DoTs, Summon Bahamut, boom boom boom, Bahamut is de-summoned and you have 5s to 10s left until AF is ready again.

P.S. Devotion needs something but I need to go to work.

[Connor]

Personally I think Summoner issues can be summed up quite nicely in a single sentence; [i] you're working harder to do equal to what others do [i]
I think mostly what they should be focusing on is making Summoner feel more rewarding. Jumping through aetherflow, trance, contagion line-up and pet management hoops, just to summon Bahamut and keep your dps the same everyone else's.

[Schondetta]

just wanted to add my 2 cents on Bahamut summon itself

having Ahk Morn on a weird recast timer within Bahamuts summon times feels inorganic and sloppy to me. I dont see why this makes sense to try to squeeze 2 casts out let alone dealing with the pet lag issue, makes the whole thing more convoluted than it needs to be. Just have one Ahk Morn per summon. play with potency numbers to make the change make sense. Maybe that will even have the fortunate side effect of making the move its self feel more powerful in dungeons since it isn't really that awe inspiring like Flare was in days of ol

[Angry_Evil]

just wanted to add my 2 cents on Bahamut summon itself

having Ahk Morn on a weird recast timer within Bahamuts summon times feels inorganic and sloppy to me. I dont see why this makes sense to try to squeeze 2 casts out let alone dealing with the pet lag issue, makes the whole thing more convoluted than it needs to be. Just have one Ahk Morn per summon. play with potency numbers to make the change make sense. Maybe that will even have the fortunate side effect of making the move its self feel more powerful in dungeons since it isn't really that awe inspiring like Flare was in days of ol

Or just make him cast Ahk Morn automatically when he leaves. Actually they should do the same for deathflare lol
Tho we would need something else to not make SMN super brainded...

[Maku]

Death. Death is the most glaring issue. Loosing your stacks for da big-daddy dragon upon a death is a MAJOR weakness. No other job is totally wrecked like SMN is by a death.

[Angry_Evil]

Death. Death is the most glaring issue. Loosing your stacks for da big-daddy dragon upon a death is a MAJOR weakness. No other job is totally wrecked like SMN is by a death.

Don't die. Also dragoons are.

Death flare should not end the DWT as bahamut does not leave the field when he uses akh morn.

How this will help exactly?

[Neela]

Death. Death is the most glaring issue. Loosing your stacks for da big-daddy dragon upon a death is a MAJOR weakness. No other job is totally wrecked like SMN is by a death.

yeah i learned that again in d1s, d2s and current d3s progress - if everything goes well I share dps with our Brd but if I die, mess up Bahamuts timing in boss mechanics or have to help with (hardcast) ressing in progress phases I instantly lose 500-700 overall dps compared to her...

A knockout really hits us pretty hard : /

[Koyuki38]

Death flare should not end the DWT as bahamut does not leave the field when he uses akh morn.