DRK needs re-tuning/buffing.

[Deathshiro]

Snip

Doubt I'm undervaluing it, I'm giving it how it is. Judging from what I've seen, experienced and played, you use it as I do... literally. For the most part it's used for tank busters and nowhere else really. I don't even find myself in a position of "Oooooo I got 2400 mana, time to use TBN!". On your point of mana management, unless CS will be up shortly unused mana is wasted mana. Whenever I'm trying in susano TBN See's about 3-4 uses total over an 8min fight in susano, including the beginning for the easy pop delirium, after that most of my blood gen is through natural blood weapons/soul eaters.


Even then sure, TBN is a "great" defensive in comparison to the rest of our kit, our kit being garbage. Sheltron gives better defensive ability than TBN, while yes a paladin doesn't have any offensive use for their gauge... clearly they don't need it with holy spirit and requiscat.

Again, in my opinion the ability is extremely BORING to press, it's not a "hey I'm going to do some smart planning and use this right here! Effectively boosting my dps and making me a better player!" It's more of a "if I don't use this in combination with rampart or shadow wall... I'm dead" during a tank buster. Either give me more of a reason to use TBN outside of tank busters to idk... help people and feel rewarded? Or just buff Shadow Wall or some other defensive so it doesn't feel so needed to use 2400 mana every single tank buster.

To me, I'm not a fan of it being a cost heavy replacement of Reprisal/Low blow.

[SyzzleSpark]

i guess you are talking about the old reprisal? cause DA dark dance was never a thing for raids. and non of the other skills got nerfed. rampart = shadowskin, shadow wall is the same as before, so is dark mind, conva and living dead. grit is also the same.

and talking about reprisal. you couldn't even use it in some encounters as it required a parry to activate.

Is DRK perfect? hell no! is it as bad as some ppl say? Definitely not.

No, I'm not talking about DA Dark Dance.

DD+Reprisal was what tied DRK's mitigation kit together. They were a package. Dark Dance is just gone, we can't get it back because in any serious content we don't have room for Anticipation, almost everything else is more valuable. So we don't get that back. A 5s Reprisal every 60 seconds in no way in no reality or dimension makes up for the loss of a 20s Reprisal every 30s, 40s if you were unlucky. Unlike Storm's Path, Reprisal was extremely effective personal mitigation because we kept it up as much as possible; it was a part of our cooldown suite. Without it, we are undeniably squishier.

Requiring a parry to activate locked its use out of 1 encounter (A4s). Every other boss in Alex savage had at least physical AAs. And where physical damage was not present... well... we're DRKs. You know, the pigeon-holed "magic tank".

TBN is powerful, and now it is a DPS gain to keep more or less on cooldown. But having to precisely time a cooldown every 15s and manage your mana around it requires a decent amount of skill and awareness, and yet its not fun. Its just stressful. And while I enjoy tradeoffs, gambling with a tradeoff mechanic 3-4 times per minute doesn't feel good. And the ability is overpowered, even, and our kit is entirely too over-centralized on it. DD+Reprisal simply bridged the gap between our stronger cooldowns. TBN doesn't work in the same way. Its high uptime mitigation, yes, but you risk a DPS loss every time you use it, assuming a cast/TB isn't incoming.

Our DPS and mitigation are so entangled with timing this one single button every 15s, to such a strong degree, that it just becomes a button that symbolizes stress. TBN is just too over-centralizing. All of our remaining defensive CDs are completely forgettable, and as Lyth pointed out, DA-DM is almost completely obsolete. While they argue Vengeance is overtuned, I would rather see Shadow Wall buffed, and of course Living Dead is still completely unchanged along with our ability (or lack thereof) to push any kind of reliable or appreciable self-healing throughput.

Honestly, the more I've discussed TBN on these forums with people, the more I've come to resent the ability. By its very design within the context of our toolkit, it symbolizes imbalance.

DRK is pretty bad. Its arguably the worst tank right now. WAR mains may have you believe otherwise, but a WAR/PLD comp brings better survivability, better damage, and only slightly less utility. Its still fun, and I enjoy and love the job, and will never stop maining it. But it needs a lot of help, as does WAR.

[BlueYukiao]

FWIW I love TBN. After the buff, knowing that TBN+Bloodspiller is a flat dps gain; I love getting the most I can out of TBN, and the satisfying sound the gauge makes when the shield breaks.... Mmm MM!! I especially enjoy using it as OT, on the MT. Been farming Lakshmi Ex recently (I just love that fight so I'm always down), and throwing up TBN on every Pull of Light on the MT gives me ALL the Bloodspillers!! (And that's really the endgame for me, I love Bloodspiller's animation/sfx.)

I'm torn because I agree that we have to use it too much, your dps will suffer for letting it sit off cooldown for too long, therefore we're forced to use it so often... But I LOVE fitting it in anywhere I can, so if the CD was reduced to be more comparable to C&S (and perhaps we gain some more mitigation elsewhere), I'd be a little sad to see it less.

[Praesul]

I cannot believe there are actually people on here that really undervalue TBN. You people are ACTUALLY insane. It's an amazing shield and a DPS increase at the same time, and does have uses outside of tank busters (I toss it down and purple marked people in susano ex, for an example. Healers have to spend less MP AND I get a free bloodspiller out of it.)

Are there any other defensive abilities for tanks that are also DPS increases? Vengeance, hallowed ground? Vengeance is a minor DPS increase but really that doesn't matter because it's just just an amazing ability overall, and even then it has a 120 sec cooldown. And hallowed? That's 4 free GCDs for both healers which is pretty good, but it's also got a 7 minute long cooldown so it will only ever see one use per encounter until the later ones that take forever, in which case you get two.

The only other comparable abilities are...clemency and intervention (which is supposed to be PLD's equivalent). Clemency isn't mitigation, it's a heal, and is a clear DPS loss. Intervention doesn't cost you any damage since it uses no MP and just gauge, but it doesn't give you any offensive benefit out of it either. It's just damage reduction.

[SyzzleSpark]

snap

I'm not certain if this was directed at me, but I don't undervalue TBN, quite the opposite, I'm acutely aware of how powerful it is. My opinion is that its cooldown is too short; its almost like a secondary Dark Arts, a whole extra job mechanic. Punishment for mistiming it is fine, as I've said, tradeoffs are a valued part of job design. But the fact that we are encouraged to risk that punishment every 15 seconds? idk about that. And you want to press it often for the reasons you describe, while the rest of our CDs are aging, undervalued relics of 3.x. No other job in the game risks wasting 1/4 of their resource every 15s for a gamble on mitigation and dps.

Using it on cooldown to help mitigate damage in between tank busters (because it is often the only mitigation we have for this time period, which is a problem in itself) places undue focus on a boss's auto-attack rotation that no other tank or even job has to pay attention to. I find this really silly. TBs are a pass-fail mechanic, and now AAs are a pass-fail for our mana?

Like I said, I just really wish its cooldown would be increased by 10-15s, and some of that power be distributed elsewhere in our kit. Our other cooldowns just feel awful in comparison. I don't say that lightly. And even if TBN was on a 30s recast, it wouldn't be that much less powerful than it is now, if at all.

[TankHunter678]

I just wish they reverted DRK back to its 3.x state and gave it skills to patch its weak points rather then tear it down and then half ass patch the holes they made.

[SyzzleSpark]

I just wish they reverted DRK back to its 3.x state and gave it skills to patch its weak points rather then tear it down and then half ass patch the holes they made.

The more I play the expansion the more I resent the ability pruning and attempts to reduce button bloat. As a controller player who still found a spot for everything on their hotbars and used it all effectively without macros or GCD problems, I really feel like the QoL aspect of reducing button bloat was absolutely not worth the nerfs that it cost us and was ultimately wasted.

When they first said they were doing this, I assumed things like Foresight and Awareness were gonna get combined into one button and other things like that. You know, combining effects and buttons instead of removing them entirely and replacing them with something arguably worse. Who knows what they're thinking at this point.

[Falar]

The more I play the expansion the more I resent the ability pruning and attempts to reduce button bloat. As a controller player who still found a spot for everything on their hotbars and used it all effectively without macros or GCD problems, I really feel like the QoL aspect of reducing button bloat was absolutely not worth the nerfs that it cost us and was ultimately wasted.

When they first said they were doing this, I assumed things like Foresight and Awareness were gonna get combined into one button and other things like that. You know, combining effects and buttons instead of removing them entirely and replacing them with something arguably worse. Who knows what they're thinking at this point.

I had a sinking feeling this is what we would get when they announced this. It is what made me delay pre-ordering for a while, but eventually I gave in. So I guess ragequitting now would be a bit premature.

[Vallamaria]

I just want to mention to all my fellow DRKs here that if we really want to see certain changes happen it would be in our best interest to leave SE questions about whether they would consider changing or improving certain key issues with DRK in the Ask Questions for Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXXVII! (Exploring Patch 4.0) thread.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-Patch-4.0%29

Because we're definitely WAY more likely draw SE's attention to the issue if we band together and do so. Since we already know they're going to be looking over that thread and bringing various questions from it to the attention of Yoshi-P. So the more obvious we make it that DRK is in need of retuning/buffing the more likely we are to get some improvements made.

Also, do keep in mind that there's a one question per post rule as stated by the Community Rep.

[*]Please post only one question per reply (of course you are allowed to post several replies!)

[Praesul]

I'm not certain if this was directed at me.

It wasn't, it was directed at people who think TBN isn't very good. Because they're horribly, horrendously, absolutely 100% wrong.