Ooooh More Emnity

[Cevoh]

Yeah, like WAR no longer doing 80% of a DPS jobs damage. How dare they!

Yeah! How dare an offensive orientated tank want to do damage!! They should be happy with 0 utility and just stay in tank stance and be a REAL tank. Tanks should just wrap themselves up in a nice film of bubble wrap and spam flash, or unleash, over power and be happy with their class! /s

[Marxam]

I think the real question here is what will that enmity scale with? Is it tied to VIT? Flat value that increases with ilvl? Combination of VIT and STR? Adding more enmity is good but its a shame that Overpower was the only aoe to get the treatment. Would have liked to see Steel Cyclone get the same love since it costs 50 gauge to use.

[Faytte]

Tanks should do 70%-80% or so of the dps of a normal dps. That is how it is in most games in fact. No one wants to be doing 50% of a dps damage and just be a giant punching back. That is how you get to a point where people don't want to play tanks.

But the issue is not the amount of damage tanks are doing but their solution for it. Tanks already have fewer forms of potency to unload damage than dps do, that is naturally how you control how much damage a tank does. Add in 20% penalty in tank stances and you have plenty of ways to reduce their overall potential. But when you straight up say 'your right side wont help your damage at all' then you have a expansion long issue of scaling that will only get worse over time.

Its stupid.

[Dzian]

SE, seriously, you add anymore aggro to flash and I'm going to be able to use it once then afk for the rest of the pull.

Without meaning to sound offensive I am really beginning to wonder what dps players these tank people get in there parties when they can say they don't have any enmity problems at all.

I've sometimes found my self flashing and scorning entire pulls (in shield oath) till I literally have no mp left only to see half the pull go yellow 2 seconds later after I run out of mp.

Mathematically it's impossible for a pld to generate more enmity in a large pull than endless flash and scorn spam in shield oath. because they are our biggest aoe eminty gains. If I even think about using total eclipse (more damage less enmity) then oh no there goes the pull over there smacking the dps..... and they're dead.....

[Baci]

There is actually 3.6k paladin parse from fflogs 3.4k without balance. So if you dont do 4300 with dps without balance and 4500+ with balance you are garbage dps? I wonder how there is so many garbage dps players in fflogs that can not reach that.

Yeah cause that one tank that got pushed beyond everything is the measurement for everything.
Is today be as stupid as you can be on the forum day or what

[Sunako]

Yeah cause that one tank that got pushed beyond everything is the measurement for everything.
Is today be as stupid as you can be on the forum day or what

Oh I m sorry if I hurt your little tank friend so you need to white knighting him. My example was probably exaggerated. Well if we compare these speed runs where warrior and paladin do around 3200 dps, dps classes in their team do around 4k, bard is doing 3.6k. If dps do 4k dps 80% from it is 3200 dps wich is exactly what tanks are doing. Tanks are still doing 80% from what dps classes do. This is just basic math. No offence.

[Cadmus]

Oh I m sorry if I hurt your little tank friend so you need to white knighting him. My example was probably exaggerated. Well if we compare these speed runs where warrior and paladin do around 3200 dps, dps classes in their team do around 4k, bard is doing 3.6k. If dps do 4k dps 80% from it is 3200 dps wich is exactly what tanks are doing. Tanks are still doing 80% from what dps classes do. This is just basic math. No offence.

You realize tank dmg is being artificially (and temporarily) boosted by about 25% right?

Those tanks are doing around 2,3-2400- DMG. And that's a top 1, rank 1, percentile tank... So a grey parsing Sam or MNK in the same run is going to out-dps THE top 1 PLD?

Then why don't I just Flash spam and watch Netflix? Where's my incentive?

That's the future.

Giving tanks more enmity generation, while trimming down damage margins so much, is just going to make the role feel very un-impactful. Tanks pushing their DPS, to be better or worse than other tanks, yet still reasonably lower than a DPS of the same percentile rank, was one of the skill dividing factors of a good tank from a bad tank. But now all tanks will be pretty much the same, maybe a 250 DPS variance from the median to the top percentile (minus super speed comps or double ast cheese), once they're forcibly moved into full Fending gear for the HP to succeed in Omega Savage.

A tank's value moves to their ability to utilize their party utility abilities then.... Aka a support class.... Which means if you felt no incentive before since being top 1 in your tank class meant a grey-parsing MNK would still out-dps you by 300, then there's even less now if you're a DRK or WAR and have no great utility.

tl;dr
DPS queues are gonna get longer

[NosValk]

Giving tanks more enmity generation is just going to make the role feel very un-impactful. Tanks pushing their DPS, to be better or worse than other tanks, yet still reasonably lower than a DPS of the same percentile rank, was one of the skill dividing factors of a good tank from a bad tank.

All I can say is YES, I like your statment.

[eagledorf]

snip

Well, not only that, but there's more to the game than just dungeons and raids even though raids are the main thing we care about in terms of balance. Assuming we're getting a new deep dungeon in 4.1 tanks actually do need to be able to do good DPS, like maybe 75% of a DPS job. If tanks and healers do only 40% of a DPS job's DPS even in their DPS stance, if you get 2 tanks+healer in the deep dungeon you could have a bad time on the bosses.

Raw tank DPS is irrelevant to this conversation anyway since they can always tweak the formula to make it higher or lower, the problem is that the right side of your gear doesn't provide your primary stat and that's dumb. I don't care to upgrade my accessories because they give me nothing for the content in the game currently. That's dumb, better gear should make you stronger.

[Tankstuff]

Oh I m sorry if I hurt your little tank friend so you need to white knighting him. My example was probably exaggerated. Well if we compare these speed runs where warrior and paladin do around 3200 dps, dps classes in their team do around 4k, bard is doing 3.6k. If dps do 4k dps 80% from it is 3200 dps wich is exactly what tanks are doing. Tanks are still doing 80% from what dps classes do. This is just basic math. No offence.

youre a dense ape. This will be the smallest gap between tanks and dps the entire expansion unless they fix tanks scaling with our accessories, and right now the only reason we can hit those numbers is because of a loophole where we throw away 10k hp to use 270 accessories and go ham without tank stance the entire fight because the primals are glorified striking dummies. That wont happen in savage progression.