Problem: Items are Worthless

[TirionCrey]

Whether you like it or not (and it is a perfectly valid opinion) crafters ARE classes. It is a fundamental design of the game, and one the (few) things that is unique and not so game breaking it requires a complete rework. IMO, if SE is smart, they will keep it that way. That said, they definitely need to make adjustments to crafting to balance it and expand on the ways that crafters get SP - net necessarily increase or decrease it, but give them the variety that DoM/DoW has (behest, leves, grind, NMs, etc.) and then balance from there.

The biggest flaw of that "fundamental" system, where crafting classes are supposed to be classes just as the Battle ones is...there will never EVER be anything like CoP again, ever. Crafting classes are supposed to be able to get all "Story Quests" done, just like Battle Classes...which makes challenging battles like in CoP completely impossible.

The fact that so many people liked CoP and still think it was the best storyline in FFXI so far(and prolly will be forever) was not only the storyline itself being really good, but it was the whole "effort" it took to actually experience it.

Something like this will never be in FFXIV ever, when crafting classes stay the way they are.
I do craft myself...I do it a lot actually...but crafting classes being part of "Main Classes" is just limiting the content they could implement for Battle Classes and wether you like it or not...the majority of the players still play Battle Classes over Crafting Classes.

The ONLY option right now to get something like CoP in the game and let crafting classes stay the way they are would be, to implement 2 different Storylines for Battle and Crafting Classes. Battle Classes should experience the Storyline from a more battle involved perspective, while crafting classes could experience the Storyline from a more "supportive" perspective, for example there is a big battle going on between the Garlean Empire and the leftover nomads from Ala Mihgo. Battle Classes could be directly participating in that battle, while crafting classes experience it from the "defense" line and craft stuff for the nomads battling on the field or anything like that. Make the Storylines reward different things to match the Class you're playing it with(just like the CoP Rings for each class, just make it crafting/battle/mage rings for example)

The only reason I want to see crafting classes being treated as what they are, is the fact that it would ruin the possibilities for the storyline when it comes to challenging fights.

PS: Do you actually play FFXIV? Cause there is no character shown on the Lodestone on either Sanctus Refero, or Origami Kitsune...

[origamikitsune]

The biggest flaw of that "fundamental" system, where crafting classes are supposed to be classes just as the Battle ones is...there will never EVER be anything like CoP again, ever. Crafting classes are supposed to be able to get all "Story Quests" done, just like Battle Classes...which makes challenging battles like in CoP completely impossible.

The fact that so many people liked CoP and still think it was the best storyline in FFXI so far(and prolly will be forever) was not only the storyline itself being really good, but it was the whole "effort" it took to actually experience it.

Something like this will never be in FFXIV ever, when crafting classes stay the way they are.
I do craft myself...I do it a lot actually...but crafting classes being part of "Main Classes" is just limiting the content they could implement for Battle Classes and wether you like it or not...the majority of the players still play Battle Classes over Crafting Classes.

The ONLY option right now to get something like CoP in the game and let crafting classes stay the way they are would be, to implement 2 different Storylines for Battle and Crafting Classes. Battle Classes should experience the Storyline from a more battle involved perspective, while crafting classes could experience the Storyline from a more "supportive" perspective, for example there is a big battle going on between the Garlean Empire and the leftover nomads from Ala Mihgo. Battle Classes could be directly participating in that battle, while crafting classes experience it from the "defense" line and craft stuff for the nomads battling on the field or anything like that. Make the Storylines reward different things to match the Class you're playing it with(just like the CoP Rings for each class, just make it crafting/battle/mage rings for example)

The only reason I want to see crafting classes being treated as what they are, is the fact that it would ruin the possibilities for the storyline when it comes to challenging fights.

PS: Do you actually play FFXIV? Cause there is no character shown on the Lodestone on either Sanctus Refero, or Origami Kitsune...

Yes, I play, my character name is "Pooka Pucel" on Besaid. And I agree with you whole heartedly about CoP being awesome. I happen to also agree that it will be impossible to have CoP -if- they insist on present the story from a single perspective. The solution, I believe, is to maintain crafters as primary classes AND show it by giving plot from two perspectives - DoH/DoL and DoM/DoW. Whether or not SE will do that, I do not know. And if they can't (say, SE won't pay to develop two story lines) then they SHOULD focus on a story line for DoW/DoM and introduce CoP quality content. BUT, in a perfect world, they will give DoW/DoM CoP quality storyline + combat, and DoL/DoH CoP quality storyline + content that is different.

[Amineri]

The biggest flaw of that "fundamental" system, where crafting classes are supposed to be classes just as the Battle ones is...there will never EVER be anything like CoP again, ever. Crafting classes are supposed to be able to get all "Story Quests" done, just like Battle Classes...which makes challenging battles like in CoP completely impossible.

Let my point out that the premise of including crafters and gatherers does not preclude the concept of challenging and epic stories and missions. Currently the major story arc is solo-only, and thus the combat is toned down to a point where it is trivial for a combat class. When group-based quest content is added this need not be the case.

So far the concept of crafters and gatherers as fully realized classes in their own right is new, and there is much to be added to make it a complete system. Let me point you here for one concept I've had about how to make exciting challenges that require a diversity of classes to succeed.

[TirionCrey]

Let my point out that the premise of including crafters and gatherers does not preclude the concept of challenging and epic stories and missions. Currently the major story arc is solo-only, and thus the combat is toned down to a point where it is trivial for a combat class. When group-based quest content is added this need not be the case.

So far the concept of crafters and gatherers as fully realized classes in their own right is new, and there is much to be added to make it a complete system. Let me point you here for one concept I've had about how to make exciting challenges that require a diversity of classes to succeed.

And that's the whole point for me. Group based Story content is not gonna be in the game ever, as long as Crafters are supposed to be able to finish those storylines as well. They would have to make Crafters somewhat "Battle"classes to actually give them use in those battles, like giving them debuffs(which they "announced weay before the beta started"...)
I remember SE saying that Armorers for example could use a skill to lower the defense of an armor based mob, since they have in depth knowledge about armor...but this is not the case...they are just crafting and nothing else and if it stays this way, there will be no group based story content, cause it would exclude crafters from it. They would have to remake all crafting and gathering classes...and lets be honest...this is not gonna happen.

Yes i do. And if you don't then i guess you didn't pick a nice class to fight Maat the first time. ^^

So you felt "epic" and like you saved the world when you defeated Maat? <.<
I was refering to Ealdanarche, Kamlanaut and Promathia etc...if you would have fought these bosses solo...and they would be as easdy as current fights in FFXIV...

They only thing that I would feel is...why wasn't "08/15" Adventurer No.17853 killing this shit quick?