Large pulls VS Small pulls... in leveling dungeons?

[Fynlar]

Unless you are SCH, there are very few pulls a reasonable healer cannot keep a tank alive through.

I have seen plenty of pulls (in all three post-legacy patch cycles so far) where I can literally be spamming Cure 2 as fast as I can (as in, stopping to try to do anything else like a Regen would result in the tank dying) and it's not enough to keep up with the sheer damage the tank is taking.

It is not just a healer effort.

[HyperSMB]

-snip-.

Bene/Tetra/Assize/Asylum in between, use Holy to stop damage for 4 seconds then SC for another holy halfway through that stun for another stun which you can cast Cure 2 during.

If you use all these right and the tank still dies, he sucks.

What I mean to say is spamming Cure 2 or Bene 2 is not enough on a real pressure pull.

On the other hand, a tank should know the right limits and test the healer/DPS early and adjust expectations as needed (Since DPS killing things faster is a form of mitigation).

[Neophyte]

There are several occassions where you can pull 2 groups together. With rolebased skills I have, idk, 6 cooldowns+hallowed and clemency too, so esp. if I got two casters I gonna pull 2 groups at certain points.

Not crazy shit, like approaching the big stone adds in bardams mettle with the group before them. But Doma Castle the first two groups (starting with HG) or the two groups in the staircase (HG again and usually with full lb)? Sure.

[VanilleFang]

Bene/Tetra/Assize/Asylum in between, use Holy to stop damage for 4 seconds then SC for another holy halfway through that stun for another stun which you can cast Cure 2 during.

If you use all these right and the tank still dies, he sucks.

What I mean to say is spamming Cure 2 or Bene 2 is not enough on a real pressure pull.

On the other hand, a tank should know the right limits and test the healer/DPS early and adjust expectations as needed (Since DPS killing things faster is a form of mitigation).

You don't have all those CDs in every dungeon. I remember back when Qarn HM was relatively new and I got a run with a tank that was impossible to keep up when all I could do was spam Cure 2 w/ Divine Seal/PoM. All I had other than that was Bene, on a 300 sec CD.

I of course got blamed for him dying consistently, even though I explained that I was spamming Cure 2 and he was still dying.

[Naberrie]

You don't have all those CDs in every dungeon.

Exactly. Not every dungeon is level 70 where have your entire toolkit. Some of them you're cut off from your favorite bag of tricks and just trying to throw out what you have to work with as fast as you can.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

But THATS the reason why everyone is having this issue. The meta is WRONG. Look at the thread, SE is finally taking a stand against the speed runners and told them to STOP. How? By making things hit harder and punishing you for trying to heal/tank like you did in HW. This is good and hopefully people wake the fuck up instead of running in these dungeons like they are superman.

This is just plain false. Nothing hits harder, we're just not laughably overgearing it. I have had tanks do soft pulls and others pull half the dungeons with no issues. Nothing will change, especially as more people reach ilvl 320 and beyond. In fact, it'll inevitably go back to the speed running meta we've always done. Frankly, I am glad. Doing one pack at a time is bloody boring, especially on healer.

I have seen plenty of pulls (in all three post-legacy patch cycles so far) where I can literally be spamming Cure 2 as fast as I can (as in, stopping to try to do anything else like a Regen would result in the tank dying) and it's not enough to keep up with the sheer damage the tank is taking.

It is not just a healer effort.

No one is saying otherwise. In that scenario, you had a stupid tank who thought their cooldowns were for decoration. We can't judge content based on people who don't even know the basics to their job. If you have a decent healer and tank, who rotate their abilities properly. Big pulls are still fine.

[Pells]

Tanks are wearing STR gear to HELP them do their job which is hold aggro, becuase someone thought it would be a good idea to remove their VIT damage scaling.

Holding agro is moot if the tank dies.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Holding agro is moot if the tank dies.

And they won't, provided they use cooldowns. People really have been overstating how hard these dungeons are. They aren't.

[RyuujinZERO]

Holding agro is moot if the tank dies.

And holding aggro isn't really something we have much trouble with, even before the buffs to emnity generation that came in 4.01. Yes our threat gen isn't what it used to be, but it's entirely adequate for current content. Let's face it: People use STR gear for bigger numbers, NOT because they are struggling with threat

[Avatre]

And holding aggro isn't really something we have much trouble with, even before the buffs to emnity generation that came in 4.01. Yes our threat gen isn't what it used to be, but it's entirely adequate for current content.

Unless you're partied with two red mages and don't use Overpower/Flash/Unleash respectively when pulling. I admit I haven't tanked since SB hit, but my go-to way of tanking is use the aforementioned skills 2-3 times depending on mob size.

Let's face it: People use STR gear for bigger numbers, NOT because they are struggling with threat

And usually ignore above mentioned skills.