Large pulls VS Small pulls... in leveling dungeons?

[Naberrie]

IMO, large pulls are a bad idea in most instances right now. Not all; there are exceptions, but in most 51+ dungeons that I've run, when tanks try to mass pull it ends in trouble, or at the very least a large amount of stress.

Tanks are tending to be squishy now on large pulls, so I'm usually in panic mode trying to keep them upright (I've had zero problems with tanks doing small pulls). When I play BRD, I've lost or had nerfed most of my AoEs, so it's not like I'm more effective as DPS on large pulls than small. Flaming Arrow and Wide Volley are gone, Quick Nock sucks now except on low HP trash, and I can hardly spam Rain of Death.

If you pull small it allows the healer (and this is coming from a healer) to contribute to the DPS. If you pull large, the healer is doing nothing but spamming heals, and even then may need a SMN or RDM to help bail him out.

IMO, the changes they made to tanks (such as removing some cross class skills, changing the way the stats work), makes large pulling prohibitive in most, but not all, situations right now. I'm at the point where I don't even want to run roulette on AST or WHM unless I'm with friends, because it's too stressful.

[savageink]

IMO, large pulls are a bad idea in most instances right now. Not all; there are exceptions, but in most 51+ dungeons that I've run, when tanks try to mass pull it ends in trouble, or at the very least a large amount of stress.

It's not just newer dungeons. Have you gotten Aurum Vale lately? I've had that one a couple times. You can tell it's going to be a good run if the tank isn't flattened (multiple times) in the first area.

[Naberrie]

Twice, actually. Once was today, in fact. And yeah, the first room was a problem. I mean, it's always been difficult, but now it's really difficult.

[Fynlar]

IMO, if you're a DPS consistently having to drop what they're doing to help the healer help the tank survive every pull, as well-intentioned as you might be, you should just stop. The tank surviving these encounters is only going to have him think that what he's doing is okay. Sometimes only a good death or two is enough to teach them that they're overdoing it. (That, or they just ragequit after one wipe... which is probably what happens more often nowadays)

[HyperSMB]

IMO, if you're a DPS consistently having to drop what they're doing to help the healer help the tank survive every pull, as well-intentioned as you might be, you should just stop. The tank surviving these encounters is only going to have him think that what he's doing is okay. Sometimes only a good death or two is enough to teach them that they're overdoing it. (That, or they just ragequit after one wipe... which is probably what happens more often nowadays)

Unless you are SCH, there are very few pulls a reasonable healer cannot keep a tank alive through.

That said, if the tank is making you uncomfortable, say so. I have found most tanks to be rather reasonable, or at least willing to go GIANT PULL -> Smaller pull to let me get my oGCD's back.

[Fynlar]

Unless you are SCH, there are very few pulls a reasonable healer cannot keep a tank alive through.

I have seen plenty of pulls (in all three post-legacy patch cycles so far) where I can literally be spamming Cure 2 as fast as I can (as in, stopping to try to do anything else like a Regen would result in the tank dying) and it's not enough to keep up with the sheer damage the tank is taking.

It is not just a healer effort.

[HyperSMB]

-snip-.

Bene/Tetra/Assize/Asylum in between, use Holy to stop damage for 4 seconds then SC for another holy halfway through that stun for another stun which you can cast Cure 2 during.

If you use all these right and the tank still dies, he sucks.

What I mean to say is spamming Cure 2 or Bene 2 is not enough on a real pressure pull.

On the other hand, a tank should know the right limits and test the healer/DPS early and adjust expectations as needed (Since DPS killing things faster is a form of mitigation).

[Neophyte]

There are several occassions where you can pull 2 groups together. With rolebased skills I have, idk, 6 cooldowns+hallowed and clemency too, so esp. if I got two casters I gonna pull 2 groups at certain points.

Not crazy shit, like approaching the big stone adds in bardams mettle with the group before them. But Doma Castle the first two groups (starting with HG) or the two groups in the staircase (HG again and usually with full lb)? Sure.

[VanilleFang]

Bene/Tetra/Assize/Asylum in between, use Holy to stop damage for 4 seconds then SC for another holy halfway through that stun for another stun which you can cast Cure 2 during.

If you use all these right and the tank still dies, he sucks.

What I mean to say is spamming Cure 2 or Bene 2 is not enough on a real pressure pull.

On the other hand, a tank should know the right limits and test the healer/DPS early and adjust expectations as needed (Since DPS killing things faster is a form of mitigation).

You don't have all those CDs in every dungeon. I remember back when Qarn HM was relatively new and I got a run with a tank that was impossible to keep up when all I could do was spam Cure 2 w/ Divine Seal/PoM. All I had other than that was Bene, on a 300 sec CD.

I of course got blamed for him dying consistently, even though I explained that I was spamming Cure 2 and he was still dying.

[Naberrie]

You don't have all those CDs in every dungeon.

Exactly. Not every dungeon is level 70 where have your entire toolkit. Some of them you're cut off from your favorite bag of tricks and just trying to throw out what you have to work with as fast as you can.