Large pulls VS Small pulls... in leveling dungeons?

[Evaddaragon]

Dungeons like neverreap and that stupid anti tower would take forever when being at the right ilvl or extremely under geared.

Those weren't leveling dungeons though, and we could eventually outgear them. You can never outgear a leveling dungeon (51-59 in Heavensward and 61-69 in Stormblood) unless you're level synced, and even then.

I was talking about the fact I do not remember that happening when I leveled my then-alt (DRG) in Heavensward (I leveled other classes using beastmen dailies, roulettes and PotD instead of the leveling dungeons, because faster queues), back in 2015 they would do smaller pulls as I recall. Subsequent level 60 dungeons are not what I'm talking about.

[Leigaon]

A lot has happened in 4.0, one of the things I'm noticing as I'm starting my new path at being a tank and warrior is that "The world hurts more"

I did Keeper of the Lake and I noticed at the end I was taking a bit more damage than I normally did prior to 4.0. In 1.0 and beyond I never took tanking seriously. I hit 3 buttons, get my tomes and watch NetFlix. I noticed I have to be a lot more careful now, which is fun!

But keeping it in the HW discussion, when we first got into the dungeons it was a bit like this but not the hate issues more of the taking damage part, after a bit you could pull a pack or two and keep on trucking. I speak mainly for the Stone Vigil, for some reason roulette has blessed me with that multiple times. What use to be me going in grabbing the packs of 3 and waiting for the fat dude to jump down while I watched One Punch Man has now turned into a bit more attention needed. This is for both being a healer and a tank. I noticed I'm healing my tank a lot more (Those lilies have been coming out like crazy!) and as a tank I need to manage some cool downs, yet things are dying pretty quick.

But in HW, I remember this being an issue only until people geared themselves. Though now, even geared and synced I notice the world still hits a bit harder and I need to use a cool-down or three still.

I personally think we're at a mid-point from what we're used to. On one side we're so use to doing things that require 0 effort and being over-geared that we run it to the end and watch HP fall. On the other side, newer things hit like a truck and it was near impossible to go so far without everyone going to slaughter. I feel that now we're at a mid-point where everyone is a bit more forced to do their roles, and as long as that can be maintained a few extra mobs here and there won't be an issue.

[TaleraRistain]

I almost never have a tank that doesn't pull big groups even in the new stuff, and they never ask. Then they blame me when they don't use cooldowns because "Muh deeps", I blow all my cooldowns trying to keep them alive, still have to chain cast to heal their yo-yoing health, and they still die. I had hoped that with mobs hitting harder in this expansion tanks would realize that maybe they don't want to pull like insane monkeys, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case.

[Skivvy]

I almost never have a tank that doesn't pull big groups even in the new stuff, and they never ask. Then they blame me when they don't use cooldowns because "Muh deeps", I blow all my cooldowns trying to keep them alive, still have to chain cast to heal their yo-yoing health, and they still die. I had hoped that with mobs hitting harder in this expansion tanks would realize that maybe they don't want to pull like insane monkeys, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case.

This is what I've been finding as well. I made it through the MSQ during that first week of early access, and even on my first runs, the tanks were doing huge pulls. I've had only one tank ask what type of pulls I am comfortable with. Even now, sitting at i309, there are times that I just can't keep the tank alive regardless of what I do.

[YitharV2]

This is what I've been finding as well. I made it through the MSQ during that first week of early access, and even on my first runs, the tanks were doing huge pulls. I've had only one tank ask what type of pulls I am comfortable with. Even now, sitting at i309, there are times that I just can't keep the tank alive regardless of what I do.

There's a reason I did the MSQ with a DRK in my FC rather than queue for it solo and be at the whim of DF. :P

[Annah]

White mage here:

If a white mage is geared very nicely, large pulls aren't an issue at all

However (like you said), if you just got a lvl 67 WHM (who just lvled to 67)...without that Doma gear ..I wont lie....massive pulls can be "interesting"

Especially when I see a tank wearing all STR on the right side...that ...that....that's for another topic (not saying you do this).

But if you wanna die fast...wear all DPS gear as a tank...

I hate reddit for thinking that was a good idea lol

[Evaddaragon]

Especially when I see a tank wearing all STR on the right side...that ...that....that's for another topic (not saying you do this).

Oh, no, please do not turn this into another "STR Meta" topic. Hahaha.

[Hikuras]

Oh, no, please do not turn this into another "STR Meta" topic. Hahaha.

But THATS the reason why everyone is having this issue. The meta is WRONG. Look at the thread, SE is finally taking a stand against the speed runners and told them to STOP. How? By making things hit harder and punishing you for trying to heal/tank like you did in HW. This is good and hopefully people wake the fuck up instead of running in these dungeons like they are superman.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

But THATS the reason why everyone is having this issue. The meta is WRONG. Look at the thread, SE is finally taking a stand against the speed runners and told them to STOP. How? By making things hit harder and punishing you for trying to heal/tank like you did in HW. This is good and hopefully people wake the fuck up instead of running in these dungeons like they are superman.

This is just plain false. Nothing hits harder, we're just not laughably overgearing it. I have had tanks do soft pulls and others pull half the dungeons with no issues. Nothing will change, especially as more people reach ilvl 320 and beyond. In fact, it'll inevitably go back to the speed running meta we've always done. Frankly, I am glad. Doing one pack at a time is bloody boring, especially on healer.

I have seen plenty of pulls (in all three post-legacy patch cycles so far) where I can literally be spamming Cure 2 as fast as I can (as in, stopping to try to do anything else like a Regen would result in the tank dying) and it's not enough to keep up with the sheer damage the tank is taking.

It is not just a healer effort.

No one is saying otherwise. In that scenario, you had a stupid tank who thought their cooldowns were for decoration. We can't judge content based on people who don't even know the basics to their job. If you have a decent healer and tank, who rotate their abilities properly. Big pulls are still fine.

[Hikuras]

This is just plain false. Nothing hits harder, we're just not laughably overgearing it. I have had tanks do soft pulls and others pull half the dungeons with no issues. Nothing will change, especially as more people reach ilvl 320 and beyond. In fact, it'll inevitably go back to the speed running meta we've always done. Frankly, I am glad. Doing one pack at a time is bloody boring, especially on healer.

You sure about that? Cause the tons of runs and people I've talked to say otherwise. Hell people on this site say otherwise. It doesn't matter if we will over gear it later.. we don't over gear it NOW. And people are wiping now. I don't care about the future in 6.0xxx. I care about what's happening now, and now people need to chill cause we don't have the gear for it. This isn't HW. And not only gear, but jobs have been changed so it's not the same.