[Request] Opt out of the Echo buff via Duty Finder

[Grann-Goro]

Yes I know it's possible to remove a buff with a PS4 controller, but the method for that is more difficult to explain.

And even when there is no language issue :
- Some people don't even know about the very existence of the Echo and it takes time to explain them what it is.
- Some people don't even know what a "buff" is and where they are on their screen.
- Some people don't even use the chat and they don't answer at all when we're trying to speak with them...

I try to indicate this issue in my PFs for quite some time now, but people still don't understand (or don't read).

[Rongway]

But I fear that a good number of people won't be able to understand that either sadly...

They almost everytime have no idea on how to remove a buff (and I can't really help them myself).

Yes I know it's possible to remove a buff with a PS4 controller, but the method for that is more difficult to explain.

And even when there is no language issue :
- Some people don't even know about the very existence of the Echo and it takes time to explain them what it is.
- Some people don't even know what a "buff" is and where they are on their screen.
- Some people don't even use the chat and they don't answer at all when we're trying to speak with them...

Put (/statusoff) (The Echo) in your PF comment, and say it in /p when they join, to confirm. If they don't understand this, they are not people who want to run content the way you want to run it.

There is no issue here regarding understanding or explanation. Again, if they don't understand, your goals absolutely do not align.

[Grann-Goro]

Yes, I suppose I could have this point of view...
... except that my PFs aren't only made to find people who share my goal.

My purpose also is to present the minimum item level mode to people, especially to new players who never had the opportunity to properly experience some content and who are curious to play content that require a little challenge without being "extreme" and requiring 50+ wipes.

That's why an option to prevent Echo from appearing - or its complete disappearance in minimum item level - would be a great thing to me, especially because I think that the very existence of the Echo in minimum item level is absurd !
(I mean, if I want to play in "easy mode", I would play in normal sync, not in minimum item level !)

The thing is that, even with a 10% Echo only, some trials are ruined. The coordination they normally require instantly vanish (Steps of Faith for instance).

[Grann-Goro]

Up !

I may be stubborn with this idea, but me and all the people I met feel the same way.

The very existence of the Echo when the "Minimum item level" option is activated is absurd !
Nobody wants to play with both the Minimum item level option AND the Echo !
It makes no sense at all !


Please Square, can you finally fix this little thing ?
I mean, it's only two lines of code to add in the game, literally !

Something like :

If minimum item level = true
then /statusoff The Echo to party

[Esurames]

BUMP for 2019

Having recently started doing min ilvl content it really does seem wrong for the Echo buff to exist on those, the whole idea of running at min ilvl is to make it a challenge, to see how it was intended. For the Ex trials and raids you will wipe (alot) and having to remind everyone to remove the buff each time gets annoying.

Console players appear to have a slightly convoluted way of removing buffs which increases the length of time it takes.

As mentioned in a previous comment sometimes getting the message across to other players is nigh-impossible, JEDF doesn't cover all the languages people use and so you can't rely on auto-translate.

Yes we get around those problems with persistence and talk but the better solution would be to simply remove "The Echo" buff from min ilvl or if that implementation is too difficult add a new option along the lines of "Suppress The Echo buff on duty wipe"

[ReallyMadCow]

I echo this sentiment.

[NocturniaUzuki]

Put (/statusoff) (The Echo) in your PF comment, and say it in /p when they join, to confirm. If they don't understand this, they are not people who want to run content the way you want to run it.

There is no issue here regarding understanding or explanation. Again, if they don't understand, your goals absolutely do not align.

As much as I'd love to agree with you, I can't. As someone who spends a lot of time doing echoless runs, and other unusual things, the capacity for people to not understand simple instructions amazes me.

If they don't know what a buff is, or what The Echo is (the latter of which is quite common), it takes time to explain. It you can't speak their language, auto translate doesn't help solve that issue. Just saying /statusoff "The Echo" isn't goint to help them understand what the hell The Echo is.

A lot of people also don't understand how to use text commands. Sending a text commands without the instructions on how to use it also will flop in auto translate. It may seem obvious to you, but to someone who has no idea what text commands are, they can't make the mental jump to understanding that they need to enter that text in the text box. Even if they do, they may went it wrong, using a space, or just sending the autotranslate chat again. Our base instinct when we don't understand is to mimic. But since it's impossible to write the command as you would in chat without it executing, we have to write it as an example, then specify IN ENGLISH "Write this in your chat box exactly as is with no spaces", which they don't understand so it gets nowhere.

The trouble with explanations is that they are usually only clear in our own heads. That's one reason why not everyone is a good teacher, and even if they are, they often aren't for all subjects. Explaining in such a way that someone who has no prior knowledge understands is not as easy as people tend to imagine.

[Rongway]

As much as I'd love to agree with you, I can't. As someone who spends a lot of time doing echoless runs, and other unusual things, the capacity for people to not understand simple instructions amazes me.

I don't know how many other ways I can say, "If they don't know how to turn off the echo, they obviously don't want to do an Echo-less run".

If you have to explain it, they're not your target audience. On join, confirm that they want to fight without Echo. If they're there because they want to run without Echo, they will already understand what you mean. If they don't understand, replace them.

It's about that simple. If you don't want to explain or feel like you can't explain, then don't. Your goals and their goals are not the same.

[NocturniaUzuki]

I don't know how many other ways I can say, "If they don't know how to turn off the echo, they obviously don't want to do an Echo-less run".

If you have to explain it, they're not your target audience. On join, confirm that they want to fight without Echo. If they're there because they want to run without Echo, they will already understand what you mean. If they don't understand, replace them.

It's about that simple. If you don't want to explain or feel like you can't explain, then don't. Your goals and their goals are not the same.

That much, I can actually agree with. For some reason I missed that part in your previous message.

If it's before the fight, yes one can boot people who don't respond to the no echo warning. Though that brings us to the issue of how long it takes to find a party for such things. That's a whole other can or worms, though.

[Grann-Goro]

I don't know how many other ways I can say, "If they don't know how to turn off the echo, they obviously don't want to do an Echo-less run".

If you have to explain it, they're not your target audience.

Again, that's not THAT simple....

In my experience, a good number of people really ARE interested by Echo-less run, but only after you reveal to them its existence and/or that it can be removed.

Some people don't even know that Echo exists, but once they know, they are ok to remove it.
Some people know that Echo exists and would like to turn it off, but they simply don't know it's possible or how to do it.
... And in that case, we loose a lot of time to explain all of this (especially if multiple people in the group are concerned, or when there's a language barrier).

And here I only talked about random groups.

The thing is that this Echo is ALSO very annoying with static groups !

Having to think to turn this damn thing off and to check every member of the group every five minutes (after each try) is very frustrating in the long run !
(You don't know how much until you've experienced it...)

And besides all of this, I tell it once more :
Even if the Echo has a good purpose in normal sync, it has absolutely no purpose in minimum item level and shouln't even exist in this mode !