I'm enjoying the new WHM >,>

[grumpy]

If you healed and DPS'd, yes it did. No matter how good you were, White Mage simply couldn't sustain its MP pool throughout 3.x. At least not over an extended fight.[/QUOTE]

that is true with that said i did see many whm take the dps route over the fact that the team needed heals plus usually if you had a whm you would take a brd along that is true holy drained a ton load of mp but the spam of it was a bad player choice also being aware of your mana management heal the team or dps i dps if i feel the party can handle me not healing for a moment but not to the point i have very low mana for the party but yes that was is an issue

[Colt47]

WHM got a lot of flak from youtubers reviewing the Stormblood changes since so many of their original abilities got pushed into the cross job skill selection. The job is still incredibly viable and to be frank, the end game hardcore raiding scene in this game is nowhere near as strong or pushed as it was in World of Warcraft, so even if the class "loses out to astrologian", this is only going to matter to people doing aggressive progression racing for some kind of raid completion competition. The job that perplexes me is the Paladin changes, as they made the Sheltron ability cost energy and thereby make the paladin player have to check the energy meter for an ability that is largely arbitrary most of the time and used to help with mana recovery during mass AOE taunt spamming. Also the swapping of the dps skill being on the mana recovery combo tree will throw returning players off for a while, as well as the loss of bloodbath as a skill to combo with other damage boosting abilities.

I have yet to take any class to 70 since I'm too busy gauging what classes to play in the new game right now, as they simplified both other tanking jobs and those may be more interesting to play than paladin. WHM I haven't gotten the chance to get back into yet as I just got done with RDM leveling over the week via POTD hell.

[KisaiTenshi]

Nothing really needs to be fixed for WHM in terms of skills present, what needs to be fixed is the removal of unique skills into the role system that came entirely at WHM's expense.

To copy something that I posted in another thread, the role system seems to imply that Esuna and Protect are optional.


Like give Esuna back to WHM, there was no need to pull it off, give Scholar Leeches back and put it at the same level as Esuna, and give Astrologian back Exalted Detriment. These are essential skills, and putting them on the Role system just told players it's optional. Give 15% Protect back to WHM, don't give Scholar or Astrologian "Protect" give them something else that has the same idea with a twist. eg Astrologian could have something like "Nocturnal Moonlight" (Nocturnal Sect) or "Diurnal Sunlight" which either does the 15% protect effect or a 10% effect and a 5% damage boost. Scholar could have "Fay Glow" or something that if Eos or Selene is summoned, the 15% protect effect applies to Eos and the damage speed applies to Selene (basically Fey Wind always active with Protect at 10%.)

Those two are the skills that I think healers are most upset with anyway. The other skills do feel optional. Lucid Dreaming, Swiftcast and Largesse feel necessary, but largely aren't if you aren't just spamming skills because the oGCD is available. Lucid Dreaming (formerly Shroud of Saints/Luminiferous Aether) and Largesse (Formerly Divine Seal) were both WHM abilities before, so it feels like these were stolen from WHM, while AST only gave up one, and Scholar gave up none.


What WHM is missing is some choice. They are purely healing. AST has a choice between heals, regens and shields, while Scholar has a choice between heals, and shields. WHM is basically heal or heal+regen. They stack with AST or other WHM's. Scholar/AST shields do not stack on each other. So a SCH+SCH or two AST's who select Nocturnal Sect actually impose a penalty on their party. This is why WHM still needed Stone Skin, though it probably should have been implemented like Aspected Benefic, where you either cast Regen or Stone Skin instantly via the same skill, not both. Divine Benison seems like a slap in the face. Maybe re-design SS so SS can't stack with Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize, but Divine Benison can.

[YitharV2]

-snip-

I'd agree with giving WHM Esuna back, since for me, it's annoying to swap when it's needed. I think it is kind of an insult that they basically took everything WHM had and put them in cross role.

As someone who started playing WHM recently, I'd say Esuna is optional. Like it's necessary for some dungeons, but a lot of them you just don't need it, so I don't take it in those situations.

I say I really do like Divine Bension, but it means I need to cast Cure II and the target needs to be missing HP (which means double WHM doesn't work out too well, especially with Plenary Indulgence), so I have to prep a Lily first basically. I know Stoneskin was somewhat weak but I still liked it. Because outside of Divine Bension, there's not much I can do for tankbusters except just heal through it.

[KisaiTenshi]

I'd agree with giving WHM Esuna back, since for me, it's annoying to swap when it's needed. I think it is kind of an insult that they basically took everything WHM had and put them in cross role.

As someone who started playing WHM recently, I'd say Esuna is optional. Like it's necessary for some dungeons, but a lot of them you just don't need it, so I don't take it in those situations.

I say I really do like Divine Bension, but it means I need to cast Cure II and the target needs to be missing HP (which means double WHM doesn't work out too well, especially with Plenary Indulgence), so I have to prep a Lily first basically. I know Stoneskin was somewhat weak but I still liked it. Because outside of Divine Bension, there's not much I can do for tankbusters except just heal through it.

You're not supposed to heal through debuffs, you're supposed to clean them, but the amount we can heal tends to favor healing through debuffs instead of removing them because the debuffs don't last long enough, and don't do nearly enough damage (poison.) It's actually more useful in PotD because the debuffs there last a minute.

Divine Bension isn't Stone Skin. Stone Skin lasted until enough damage was taken to drop off. Divine Bension drops off after a set time, like AST/SCH 's Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize. I would have been fine with Stone Skin being changed to act that way if the cast time was made instant, or could be party-cast like Aspected Helios during the fight. Instead we lost our only Shielding equivilent's to Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize, and because it was stackable it made WHM the perfect complicment to AST or SCH.

Note that the developers wanted to remove protect entirely, but Yoshi-P veto'd that. I'm actually thinking the developers tried to weaken WHM in as many ways as possible because without the cleric stance curse, it was too powerful.

[YitharV2]

You're not supposed to heal through debuffs, you're supposed to clean them, but the amount we can heal tends to favor healing through debuffs instead of removing them because the debuffs don't last long enough, and don't do nearly enough damage (poison.) It's actually more useful in PotD because the debuffs there last a minute.

Divine Bension isn't Stone Skin. Stone Skin lasted until enough damage was taken to drop off. Divine Bension drops off after a set time, like AST/SCH 's Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize. I would have been fine with Stone Skin being changed to act that way if the cast time was made instant, or could be party-cast like Aspected Helios during the fight. Instead we lost our only Shielding equivilent's to Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize, and because it was stackable it made WHM the perfect complicment to AST or SCH.

Note that the developers wanted to remove protect entirely, but Yoshi-P veto'd that. I'm actually thinking the developers tried to weaken WHM in as many ways as possible because without the cleric stance curse, it was too powerful.

Yeah the only time I really felt I needed Esuna was a certain A rank hunt that kept putting poison on a random person. I had to spam Cure II to outheal that. And yeah in PoTD Esuna was really really useful.

I see what you mean. Yeah I heard about Yoshi fighting to keep Protect. Hmm, well, here there are people arguing that Protect is "invisible, boring and completely indistinguishable from gameplay in which protect doesn't exist". I think it's still useful since it's free mitigation for 30m even if it is 6% or something, compared to Tenacity, which requires giving up your materia slots for it.

[MisterLucie]

There is no "new" WHM. 4.0 WHM is 3.0 WHM with better MP management and a completely worthless 70 ability.

[JMadFour]

so, OP, what you are saying is that Yoshi-P was right, and we all needed to calm down?

[UltimateGohanSs]

I have question.Why are they deleted water spell from Conjurer and WHM?Thanks

[Oscura]

Good for you.

Not sarcasm, positive attitudes towards one's job is just rare to see.