Zenos Appreciation Thread [Massive Spoilers]

[Sacerdos]

Zenos may have been a better character if he had a little bit of compassion/empathy/kindness to round him out. Though, Sociopathic Nihilism is standard in Final Fantasy, and it may have made him too much like Baelsar.

[Revanslave]

the 1st loss, was completely unexpected; and I enjoyed it.

Same. I went into it with so much confidence...then wow...I felt humiliated (idk if thats the best word). It was an odd thing to experience from a game.

[Fredco191]

As much as I wanted to kill him (I mean- he beat me up. Why wouldn't I?) He was my favorite villian.

[Shurrikhan]

Zenos was the man from gunswordland I wanted to see.

He should have his own Safari show.

And here we have a laughable Ala Mhigan in its native habitat. Sadly not much by way of game.

Zenos was by far my favorite SB character, but I worry at how cringy—and frankly, short, due to his quick boredom—that show would be.

[Clethoria]

Alas, I have awoken from mine slumber. And my Azeyma... Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the OP, or perhaps I should have put it in the OP. There was never any debate on how much one disliked Zenos. This thread was for appreciation.

[Hiveer]

He was not a good person, but he was a good character. He had his own flavour of charisma and his death saddened me because of all the wasted potential. As others pointed out, he was the only one who's ever really humiliated our character. And we NEEDED that. Being the unchallenged hero forever and ever is not really all that cool.

He was meant to be a nihilistic psychopath and carried his role out really well. I felt really bad for him too, in a way, because I doubt that he was born that way. When his father called him a monster and gave no fu**s about his death I was actually furious, especially since he's probably the one who has made him into one.

I hope that we get to kick Varis on the nose in 5.0!

[Kosmos992k]

Alas, I have awoken from mine slumber. And my Azeyma... Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the OP, or perhaps I should have put it in the OP. There was never any debate on how much one disliked Zenos. This thread was for appreciation.

Personally, I find it hard to appreciate that which I dislike. Characters like Zenos who are - to me - superficial and one dimensional evil doers who cloak themselves in faux philosophy, are little more than empty shells to be crushed to dust. The fact that he surrounded himself with sycophantic bad guy henchmen and evil scientists, promoted psychopaths and backed horrifying experiments and 'augmentations' simply pushes his character into 'evil' territory. What exactly is there to appreciate except a mish-mash of clichés that have been used by bad guys in games since games began?

Yotsuyu was more compelling - by comparison with Zenos - but in the end she too was an empty vessel of hatred given power by someone even emptier. In her end, she felt pain and cried, she was still mortal, and frail like the little girl she'd once been and she hated it. Had the world treated her like crap, chewed her up and spit her out at Zenos feet? Perhaps, and at least that gave a little insight into the person she became, but she was still empty, without purpose, without any form of philosophical guide, she was just bad for the sake of agining some kind of notional revenge against everyone else. I didn't really appreciate her character either because she had made herself irredeemable. There was no way back and even in defeat all she had left was a futile, empty gesture designed not to help herself, but hurt others.

Fordola - The butcher - was no better, twisted inside by anger and hatred, that anger and hate being fed by Zenos who also gave her the power of command, status and ultimately the Echo in some form. But like Yotsuyu, she was nothing and empty. Her motivation was completely selfish and devoid of reason, except revenge on 'them' - her own people. And she failed, and was beaten. She had nothing left inside, and again, no hope of redemption. No glimmer of reason that might allow one to understand her. She was just a feral animal of hate, anger and retribution.

I see people in this topic flipping the tables on the WoL and Scions, berating them for being do-gooders and extolling some imagined virtues of Zenos and Yotsuyu. I feel that your balance is a little off. The WoL is hardly a do-gooder given the number of lives she/he has had to take. Given the entire point of the HW story line was to teach us that sometimes we have to do things that come at a cost because there is a larger objective. The WoL is not a simple do-gooder, nor are the Scions. It's easy to poke fun at Alphinaud, but due to his manner of speech he will always seem like he's a high minded, head in the clouds type. Alisae on the other hand is much more direct and to the point. But there isn't a hair's breadth between them on the substantive issues of what must be done. Alphinaud simply prefers to remain ever hopeful of the best possible outcome, Alisae prefers a more pragmatic and cynical approach - yet she hopes that her brother's optimism is fruitful. The WoL has proven time and again that they will do what is needed to be done - precisely because it's needed.

The WoL is to me a blending of John McClane from Die Hard - "You know what you get for being a hero? Nothin'. You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah, blah, blah, attaboy. You get divorced. Your wife can't remember your last name. Your kids don't want to talk to you. You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me, kid, nobody wants to be that guy"...

...and Doctor Who, who was once told "Your version of good is not absolute. It's vain, arrogant and sentimental." - a statement which funnily enough, reminds me of Alphinaud. But the salient point about the Doctor is that wherever he goes, whenever he is, something bad is about to happen, is already happening, or has happened, and the Doctor gets to deal with it. The Warrior of Light, like it or not is always at the center of trouble, whether it's happened, is happening or will happen. Why? because like McClane says, the WoL is "that guy" who is in th wrong place at the wrong time - all the time. The person who is best qualified to deal with the situation, the person everyone else has to rely on, the person who it's incredibly dangerous to be around. If people stop to think for a moment about it, no one would walk next to the WoL, the mortality rate of people varies inversly with their proximity to the WoL.

I like to think that my WoL Kosmos, has been shaped by the events that happened in ARR. Kosmos befriended Nanamo and Thancred, since then she's been drawn to events involving the people and city of Ul'dah and Nanamo (of course) several times and will always defend the Sultana, and her flame General, someone who Kosmos would hope to call friend. Her experiences in various parts of the world with different peoples, dragons and even beast tribes and their primals have shaped her into a defender of her world, not just one city state. They have also made her a hero in the shape of John McClane and Dr Who, someone who is just that person with a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time - and yet somehow it's exactly the right place and the right time for her, because she is the hero, and will do what is necessary. But like the Doctor, Kosmos (and all of your WoLs in your own story) carry with her the deaths of those she's known, and the deaths of those she did not know - such is the weight of the Echo. Everything the WoL has done remains with them, yet instead of being crushed, they move forward because they know that to do otherwise would be the worst possible thing to do. Kos isn't cheerful defeating Zenos and his minions, she's simply determined to get the job done - because it must be done, and there is no one else to do it.

Zenos, Yotsuyu, Fordola, even the laughable Garlean commander Yotsuyu changes into a chainsaw wielding monster...all 1 dimensional bad guys.

I can't appreciate any of them in truth, they leave me nothing to appreciate. Their legacy is nothing more than death, agony and mourning of those subjugated at their whim.

[Alleo]

@Kosmos992k: This was beautiful to read and I agree with a lot of it. Out of all the enemies I could understand Fordola the most but still know that her actions were horrible. At the same time I can understand why people love/like/appreciate Zenos, especially those who wanted to be more on the bad side of things. I do kinda appreciate that we finally got an enemy that was simply evil. No sob backstory, no redemption, just an character that loves to go against people and that just kills because he sees those as weaklings. I am a bit sad to see him death, would have liked that boss fight at the end of the expansion but nothing can be done about that. But on the other hand if you look behind his "hunting lust" he has nothing left as a character. So its true that he in that way is kinda 1 dimensional.

@OP: It may be bad to see negative things about the character but at the same time if someone has created a "hate Zenos" Thread, I am quite sure that we would have found posts with love for him too.

[AdventZero]

You know, I think I figured out why people like Zenos so much.




On another note I've always found it hard to see him as stronger then me, but that's mostly cause I'm a PLD in game. Setting the CS aside, in my fight he wasn't hitting me hard enough to really lower my health. And even when it did slowly start to get low I was able to easily full heal with one clemency. By time I needed another I was long past full MP. Without a timer or a forced end for plot reasons I would have easily won both fights. Still one of the cooler villains we've faced so far, though.

[Ferrasper]

We still need Zenos wall paintings, plushies, and minions, so I can decorate an entire room dedicated to him.