[Spoilers] Lakshmi and Tempering

[Nialle]

It was established when we first fought Ifrit, that there is no cure for Tempering, only death will stop someone tempered from trying to keep resummoning their Primal.

But at the end of the Lakshmi trial, it's said that we've released her thrall on her Vira by destroying her.

Has the lore behind Tempering changed? Do not all Primals temper permanently?
If so, was killing everyone who was tempered by Ifrit a huge mistake? If so, that seems like something that should be mentioned...

[Anonymoose]

While it's been established (by the Binding Coil) that a primal can relinquish their hold on someone voluntarily (which is weird to me since it can take hold gradually just by hanging out in the primal's aura, apparently; see: Sahagin daily quests and Zurvan) ... Is it stated that they're in any way cured of Lakshmi's influence once we leave?

On the way out, we take all their crystals and warn the sister tribe that so long as the Empire holds Gyr Abania, they'll probably just try to summon her again. I read it as them still being tempered, but there being nothing we can do about it. (Plus they all already believe she's the One True God, anyway.)

We killed those tempered by Ifrit because they're essentially sleeper agents; Ifrit wants his influence to spread and consume. The tempered Ul'dahns are an imminent threat - they commit massacres and kidnap others to be tempered. They're also our kin and countrymen, the Ananta's affairs are not our business unless they intrude on our own.

If I read it properly, the Ananta are just ... depressed. Lakshmi judges that their desires are impossible, so it's better to lock them away from their reality in a fantasy world - a dream. Worst case scenario, the tempered Ananta decide that they're hopeless, summon Lakshmi again, drag their sisters before her, and then they all just isolate themselves in Gyr Abania to live out their delusions unless disturbed from without. That's not an imminent threat to us, and therefore it's not our job to be Garlemald Lite and put them all to the sword if their sisters want to try to get through to them, if they want to try to live together and have faith that that, with Garlemald gone, they won't be so hopeless as to summon her again.

Did I miss or misinterpret something that would change this reading?

[Nialle]

The quest dialogue said they were no longer her thralls, which is why I was confused.
Sure, they're still depressed. But that's different than the single-minded obsession with their Primal that being 'Tempered' means.

[Anonymoose]

The quest dialogue said they were no longer her thralls, which is why I was confused.

Aha! Something to dig for. Thank you.

Ahh... The winds whissspered of your successs...and your eyes confirm their tessstimony. The Lady of Blisss no longer holds our Qalyana sssisters in Her thrall. For thisss we thank you.

I fear this is only the beginning, for there is no cure for that which drives the desperate to beseech the gods for salvation. Should they wish to use their crystals to summon Sri Lakshmi again, naught can be done to stop them.

We ignore our sssisters' plight at our peril. Thisss we know. We shall endeavor to show them another path ssso that the day you ssspeak of never comes.

I think this might be a wonky phrasing. When Lakshmi was manifest, she was able to sustain their dream world. By slaying the primal, we put an end to this delusion, and thus brought them out of one type of thralldom ("Who are you to wake them from the dream..."). The fact that "thrall" is often used for tempering in the first place makes it confusing - but the rest of that conversation is spent warning the sister Ananta that killing the primal means little specifically because they are still tempered, to which the Ananta reply that they will continue to do everything in their power to help them realize that the primal Lakshmi was a false god.

Nothing says they have any hope of being successful, but hey, they're an ancient race that is amazing at magic - maybe they have a shot, yeah? Zenos implied that he understood something we didn't - that we're immune to primals simply because or influence is stronger than theirs. IF this is true, we're removing a lot of the mystery from it; perhaps without that mystery we no longer need tempering to be permanent. However, that seems like a BIG thing to suddenly undo, and a lot of "hard canon" already feels like its in flux. Even Allag feared the tempered ... and once we can cure it there's no reason not to just throw anyone and everyone at the primal threat ... unless it's a super special case when we cure someone, which just makes it feel like a True Love's Kiss contrivance out of Disney that saves people the plot favors. Ew. <makes discomforted face and shudders>

[Fenral]

At the very least it's been proven that the WoL can shield plot-important NPCs, now that we know what to look out for. If the Hypertuned plot-thread decides to dead-end like so many others before it, we still may end up hitting a point where we can temper our allies in order to shield them. Or even just leave a polite "WoL has dibs" on their aetheric signature so they aren't completely helpless.

[Daralii]

At the very least it's been proven that the WoL can shield plot-important NPCs, now that we know what to look out for. If the Hypertuned plot-thread decides to dead-end like so many others before it, we still may end up hitting a point where we can temper our allies in order to shield them. Or even just leave a polite "WoL has dibs" on their aetheric signature so they aren't completely helpless.

From what I remember, we're noted several times periodically for our charisma, and then Thancred says this at the end:



I have to wonder if that isn't already happening to some extent.

[Cilia]

I'm not of the mind the Warrior of Light is capable of enthralling people, let alone actively doing so. There may be something preternatural about his/her ability to gather allies, some people are just that charismatic. If it is a supernatural ability I'd wager it's something along the lines of the KotOR II protagonist's ability to gather allies - they don't do it intentionally.

We do lots of favors for lots of people. You tend to be liked when that's t he case.

[KylePearlsand]

Considering what Zenos told us, it is possible we are unintentionally doing it. We don't have full control of our echo abilities while he does after all.

[Mieck]

I wonder how much Elidibus' notion in 2.1 is tied into this - that if we knew the true power of the Echo, there would be no disagreement with the ascians. Is Elidibus powerful enough to psuedo-temper those around him?
What about Minfilia/Word of the Mother - she is doing the equivilent job for Hydaelen in the 1st that Elidibus is doing for Zodiark in the Source, right?

Do we need to re-examine all the Echo lore in light of 4.0?

[Fenral]

I'm not of the mind the Warrior of Light is capable of enthralling people, let alone actively doing so. There may be something preternatural about his/her ability to gather allies, some people are just that charismatic. If it is a supernatural ability I'd wager it's something along the lines of the KotOR II protagonist's ability to gather allies - they don't do it intentionally.

All I'm thinking is, maybe that's enough.

It's probably useless to reference Heartcatch Precure in a place like this, but that was a magical girl series where everyone the Cures saved over the course of 40+ episodes ended up protected from the big bad's attack against humanity simply by virtue of having had their hearts saved.

Or, now that my memory's jogged, maybe think of it like Richard Rahl from The Sword of Truth, whose allies did pledge a rather specific oath to serve him in order to shield them from the antagonist's mind control, but since he was a champion of human free will they remained completely in control of themselves (and could still betray him to get out of it later). It's probably the closest I've seen to tempering in other fantasy works.