Has anyone beaten good king mog without cheating?

[Raikki]

if it's that simple, why not give us some tips instead of just bragging about it?

Video was already posted from my group, but I'll relink. Is this adequate for giving tips?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNl1nn_egS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86hK7OG4abI (sloppy)

We did a smoother one (>14m remaining) just now but our camera man wasn't on to record it.

http://imgur.com/DFNBy

I'm sure other people are doing better, I'm just saying it's easy to win without the trick.

[Lakefingers]

PGL DPS output decent if you stack INT heavily. Still not great for moogle though, something like cassie which is weak to fire and static it's the top DPS.

[Sephrick]

The greatest thing about this entire conversation is a month from now no one will care a month from who was the first kill legit or otherwise.

[Raikki]

The greatest thing about this entire conversation is a month from now no one will care a month from who was the first kill legit or otherwise.

A month from now? Nobody cares who got the first kill now, either, because there were probably 50 LSes who had it within 24 hours of each other. It mostly came down to time zones and who wanted to sleep vs. stay up all night for it.

[Neptune]

when you wiped during Divine Might did it boot you from the zone and reset the encounter? because that is how the moogle fight works if you don't use the exploit to get 1 player out of combat before wiping.

Different game different fight mechanics.

I see your point but ask yourself if this is really by design. In the Ifrit fight you fight against only one enemy, so there is no progress to save, and his health regens if you were to stay out of the fight for a few mins. The immediate kick serves to give you more time to beat him on your next try. You don't get kicked out if you wipe in Batraal since there is progress to be saved. I think this is more of a ported BCNM programming scenario that was reused just to save the dev team time. I doubt any more thought than that went into it.

[Manafont]

If you got world first without exploit, that's really awesome and congratulations. If you did it with marauders instead of archers, that's also really awesome and congratulations there, too. But how is using archers an exploit when they are simply more convenient to use due to lack of direction requirements of combos? Do you have any proof of them doing immensely more damage than other battle classes? In our cursory (and admittedly imperfect) testing it seems that the DoW damage dealing classes are doing very balanced damage in ideal circumstances. But perhaps your mileage varies?

And it's a moot point to complain about stacking of archers when you stack marauders- especially considering in stacking archers you're sacrificing survivability and control for increased court vision and convenience. If anything, stacking marauders is probably a wiser strategy for learning the fight because they're not getting hit for ridiculous amounts of damage like your paper tiger archers are. Plus, if a linkshell has more experience with one class than another, it makes more sense to learn with that class than to all learn an entirely new class for new content (when you're rushing for the kill).

Finally, post proof. What information has BG withheld? BG streamed publicly and had audio enabled for a lot of it. Is BG even obligated to publicly stream everything and always openly air our vent discussions? If so- apply this standard to all progression-level linkshells. Was your linkshell streaming with audio the entire time? If so, post proof. If archers are overpowered compared to other DPS, post proof. If you got world first, post proof.

And for the record- you and another mule saying you got it first because of a timestamp in a forum post means absolutely nothing. Saying you did it with group configuration X instead of Y without proof means nothing. Link relevant main characters from the LS with the lodestone history timestamp. Are you afraid to post on your mains? Why? Link a video of your legit kill. We have one uploading, so let's all hold each other to the same standard here. Don't be hypocrites.

But who really cares about world first Moggle Mog kill now? Because if people are able to exploit for a fast, cheap, easy win- what's the point of rushing for world first through the correct, legitimate strategy? If you did it first, fine, awesome, cool, great. Congratulations to you, and respect. But you're missing the point on two very important principles.

1. If you make a claim, back it up. And 2. if you're upset about people calling a certain strategy an exploit, don't counter by calling *their* strategy an exploit when you're essentially doing the same thing.

And don't say the raise/reset strat isn't an exploit. If it were intended game mechanics you wouldn't immediately get kicked from the battlefield with all party members dead. If it were intended game mechanics it would work like FFXI where you still have 5+ minutes to reraise and recover before you're kicked. But if nothing happens, you're all kicked and game over. It clearly is an exploit. And as long as the exploit remains: A. getting a kill in this manner deserves zero respect, and B. getting world first means pretty much nothing because it isn't achieved legitimately.

Also- saying using archers is an exploit is ridiculous considering the lack of directional requirements for combos is built into the game intentionally, at least for now. Though they still have to play it smart about distance. If this isn't intended or creates a class imbalance, then it should absolutely be fixed/changed. But the bottom line is- those mechanics are currently intentionally built into the game, and therefore not an exploit. However, considering parties are immediately removed from the battlefield when all members are dead, without delay- using the raise/reset strat IS an exploit because it is in direct violation of intended game mechanics. The proof is in the pudding.

WoW handled exploits with outright bans. Pending the severity of the exploit, FFXI banned people, too. If the devs are worried about banning people because they don't want to lose potential subscription fees, ok, fair enough I guess, but it sends a really awful message and the least they can do is hotfix the exploit and strip achievements and/or weapons from people who got their achievements/weapons from using that strategy.

I can't speak for everyone in the world, or really anyone else- but for me, it has absolutely *nothing* to do with not getting world first. At this point I could care less about that. If people get it done first/fastest, fantastic. More power to them and utmost respect. But if they did it using an exploit, it just feels cheap, and takes away from the meaning and sportsmanship associated with good-natured rivalries and sportsmanship.

Remember how much respect we lost for the Patriots when we found out they were winning by spying on other teams?

While that doesn't take away from Belicheck being an outstanding coach or Brady being one of the best QBs of our time... cheating is cheating. And so it applies here, too. No one is trying to say none of the linkshells that used the exploit have any skilled players worthy of respect. But cheating is cheating, and it really leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of everyone that didn't cheat, and outright refuse to.

In the end I just feel like this is a pointless discussion and you're just a really awful troll. But while the discussion is open, something needs to be said about all this crap.





tl;dr: Did it right? Grats! Did it right, first? Seriously, grats! Cheated? Doesn't matter whether you did it first or last. Sack up about it, and while we wait for some kind of hotfix to prevent further abuse of this exploit- prove you can do it straight up the right way.

Period.

Now stop trolling.

All this just to talk about my mother at the end?

[Manafont]

Moral of the story, no matter the time zone I BEAT IT BEFORE YOU. /end Holla at a player when i get world first on the nextest stuff

[viion]

Moral of the story, butthurt.

[MeowyWowie]

Moral of the story, no matter the time zone I BEAT IT BEFORE YOU. /end Holla at a player when i get world first on the nextest stuff

Want a cookie? :3

[Hanemakikaze]

If you got world first without exploit, that's really awesome and congratulations. If you did it with marauders instead of archers, that's also really awesome and congratulations there, too. But how is using archers an exploit when they are simply more convenient to use due to lack of direction requirements of combos? Do you have any proof of them doing immensely more damage than other battle classes? In our cursory (and admittedly imperfect) testing it seems that the DoW damage dealing classes are doing very balanced damage in ideal circumstances. But perhaps your mileage varies?

And it's a moot point to complain about stacking of archers when you stack marauders- especially considering in stacking archers you're sacrificing survivability and control for increased court vision and convenience. If anything, stacking marauders is probably a wiser strategy for learning the fight because they're not getting hit for ridiculous amounts of damage like your paper tiger archers are. Plus, if a linkshell has more experience with one class than another, it makes more sense to learn with that class than to all learn an entirely new class for new content (when you're rushing for the kill).

Finally, post proof. What information has BG withheld? BG streamed publicly and had audio enabled for a lot of it. Is BG even obligated to publicly stream everything and always openly air our vent discussions? If so- apply this standard to all progression-level linkshells. Was your linkshell streaming with audio the entire time? If so, post proof. If archers are overpowered compared to other DPS, post proof. If you got world first, post proof.

And for the record- you and another mule saying you got it first because of a timestamp in a forum post means absolutely nothing. Saying you did it with group configuration X instead of Y without proof means nothing. Link relevant main characters from the LS with the lodestone history timestamp. Are you afraid to post on your mains? Why? Link a video of your legit kill. We have one uploading, so let's all hold each other to the same standard here. Don't be hypocrites.

But who really cares about world first Moggle Mog kill now? Because if people are able to exploit for a fast, cheap, easy win- what's the point of rushing for world first through the correct, legitimate strategy? If you did it first, fine, awesome, cool, great. Congratulations to you, and respect. But you're missing the point on two very important principles.

1. If you make a claim, back it up. And 2. if you're upset about people calling a certain strategy an exploit, don't counter by calling *their* strategy an exploit when you're essentially doing the same thing.

And don't say the raise/reset strat isn't an exploit. If it were intended game mechanics you wouldn't immediately get kicked from the battlefield with all party members dead. If it were intended game mechanics it would work like FFXI where you still have 5+ minutes to reraise and recover before you're kicked. But if nothing happens, you're all kicked and game over. It clearly is an exploit. And as long as the exploit remains: A. getting a kill in this manner deserves zero respect, and B. getting world first means pretty much nothing because it isn't achieved legitimately.

Also- saying using archers is an exploit is ridiculous considering the lack of directional requirements for combos is built into the game intentionally, at least for now. Though they still have to play it smart about distance. If this isn't intended or creates a class imbalance, then it should absolutely be fixed/changed. But the bottom line is- those mechanics are currently intentionally built into the game, and therefore not an exploit. However, considering parties are immediately removed from the battlefield when all members are dead, without delay- using the raise/reset strat IS an exploit because it is in direct violation of intended game mechanics. The proof is in the pudding.

WoW handled exploits with outright bans. Pending the severity of the exploit, FFXI banned people, too. If the devs are worried about banning people because they don't want to lose potential subscription fees, ok, fair enough I guess, but it sends a really awful message and the least they can do is hotfix the exploit and strip achievements and/or weapons from people who got their achievements/weapons from using that strategy.

I can't speak for everyone in the world, or really anyone else- but for me, it has absolutely *nothing* to do with not getting world first. At this point I could care less about that. If people get it done first/fastest, fantastic. More power to them and utmost respect. But if they did it using an exploit, it just feels cheap, and takes away from the meaning and sportsmanship associated with good-natured rivalries and sportsmanship.

Remember how much respect we lost for the Patriots when we found out they were winning by spying on other teams?

While that doesn't take away from Belicheck being an outstanding coach or Brady being one of the best QBs of our time... cheating is cheating. And so it applies here, too. No one is trying to say none of the linkshells that used the exploit have any skilled players worthy of respect. But cheating is cheating, and it really leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of everyone that didn't cheat, and outright refuse to.

In the end I just feel like this is a pointless discussion and you're just a really awful troll. But while the discussion is open, something needs to be said about all this crap.





tl;dr: Did it right? Grats! Did it right, first? Seriously, grats! Cheated? Doesn't matter whether you did it first or last. Sack up about it, and while we wait for some kind of hotfix to prevent further abuse of this exploit- prove you can do it straight up the right way.

Period.

Now stop trolling.

Whoever actually read this short story gets a cookie from me.