Why is Machinist DPS SOOOO BAD?

[Myon88]

I won't say it's the 100% tried and true best method, but I don't use Flamethrower to push OH. Instead, it's my lowest priority heat management tool, generally used if BS is on cooldown to ramp back up to 50. Then the Reloads and Cooldown are my go-to. Could just be me, but I feel the amount of time to ramp back to 50 with it is less than perhaps Hot Shot x5. Less damage for sure, but also less unheated downtime.

As you say, it is less damage. The funny thing is if you don't have barrel stabilizer up for recovery, you actually shouldn't overheat at all instead. Looking at the numbers, both channeling flamethrower for 4-5s (kind of bad) and doing hot shot x5 (very bad) for the sake of returning to 50 heat are too much of a DPS loss for 10s of +10% damage in wildfire to outweigh.

It really is that bad, it just goes to show how conservatively tuned the numbers are. If you're not using flamethrower for certain niche heat generation purposes, you can pretty much pretend it doesn't exist unless you're AoEing or the fight is ending.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Accidents aside, I only overheat Wildfires. As you said, it's not worth it besides. Generally speaking, I ensure I have a way back up if I do, but it only serves to highlight a major deficiency with MCH right now. Barrel/Heat downtime is like rent man; it's too damn high. Here's hoping it gets the fix it needs.

[Fannah]

I see Flamethrower as the only oGCD tool to go in overheat mode without using a GCD nor an ammunition as it's the only oGCD skill providing heat to overheat (so we can Reload before).

So you can be at 80 heat, use Hot shot for the bonus so you're at 90, then use Rapid Fire + Reload -> Flamethrower -> Wildfire

Of course, I also see it for going from 0 to 50 heat quickly as it's still the equivalent of a 150 potency move, which is not that bad the time to come back. It's CD is 60, as the whole combo for Wildfire is with Reassemble/Ricochet, etc.

So you use Barrel Stabilizer when available, as it's more efficient than Flamethower for this and Flamethrower can be used at this moment as oGCD to go overheat. And 60sec later, every cooldown will be back, so you will do it again and use Flamethrower this time to get your heat back.

[Elnidfse]

Of course, I also see it for going from 0 to 50 heat quickly as it's still the equivalent of a 150 potency move, which is not that bad the time to come back. It's CD is 60, as the whole combo for Wildfire is with Reassemble/Ricochet, etc.

So you use Barrel Stabilizer when available, as it's more efficient than Flamethower for this and Flamethrower can be used at this moment as oGCD to go overheat. And 60sec later, every cooldown will be back, so you will do it again and use Flamethrower this time to get your heat back.

A few things
1) It's not a 150 potency move. It cancels your auto attack. Making the potency closer to sub 80. Which is laughable
2) Unless you accidentally overheat flamethrower should never be used to get your heat back
3) There are better options when choosing to overheat to get better damage since ideally you will have already used your reload to set up double clean shots.

[Fingerhut]

Btw wich skills generate damage for Wildfire? The skill descprition is near to useless with "some skills don't generate damage".

[Fannah]

A few things
1) It's not a 150 potency move. It cancels your auto attack. Making the potency closer to sub 80. Which is laughable
2) Unless you accidentally overheat flamethrower should never be used to get your heat back
3) There are better options when choosing to overheat to get better damage since ideally you will have already used your reload to set up double clean shots.

(I don't use your 1/2/3 to annoy you, just to reply more easily to each).
1) I say 150 potency as it's 60/sec, so if it's compared to a GCD of 2.5, it's 60*2.5 = 150 potency. It's also like a potency or 180 if we compare it with other DoTs hitting every 3 seconds (so 60*3 = 180). But I know and agree that it cancels the auto attacks, which doesn't really matter if you use it for AoE, nor if you use it to instantly get 10 heat to overheat.

2) Bosses are not dummies, if you are in dps check phase, you have something else to think than "uhhh my overall dps will go down if I burst the boss now, people will laugh about me"

3) It is not a problem if you just timed it well to have all your cd coming back at the same time as all machinist CD are a 15 multiplier.
All his CD are :
15 sec (15*1) : Quick Reload + Gauss round
30 sec (15*2) : Reload + (+ Hot shot buff duration)
60 sec (15*4) : Reassemble + Rapid Fire + Wildfire + Ricochet + Flamethrower
90 sec (15*6) : (only Dismantle, but it doesn't really count)
120 sec (15*8) : Hypercharge + Barrel Stabilizer + Turret overdrive (the auto destruction mode).

(Gauss canon and rootkits have 10sec CD but it's not at all the same part of management)

I'm not saying we have purely to use everything when it's up, but it "looks" not too complicated to time everything and regularly look at all of your CD to manage them. ("looks" because I play it)

Btw wich skills generate damage for Wildfire? The skill descprition is near to useless with "some skills don't generate damage".

You're right it's not very clear. Almost every skills and even auto attacks generate damage for Wildfire. The question is easier to answer by what skill doesn't. Actually, all damage from turrets doesn't count, even the new auto-destruction skill of the turret. You can take a dummy, build a turret, use wildfire, directly stop attacking (as your char will make an auto attack at the same time). You will see only 25% of the dmg made by your small auto-attack will be taken in count. If I'm not wrong, absolutely all other skills count.

[Elnidfse]

(I don't use your 1/2/3 to annoy you, just to reply more easily to each).
2) Bosses are not dummies, if you are in dps check phase, you have something else to think than "uhhh my overall dps will go down if I burst the boss now, people will laugh about me"

If you're in that situation and rook overdrive has to be taken. On the assumption that Rapidfire, Reload, and Ricochet are on CD (as they should be) your overheat phase will last 4 GCDs followed by a massive DPS loss. Most DPS burn phases that aren't shinryu's tail last far longer than that. Burning into an overheat is never going to be a good idea if you're trying to push damage because once you're done burning you lose 5% damage and 30 potency on every step.

Also when I say far better options on overheat. I mean on wildfire. Burning into an overheat is a DPS loss in most cases otherwise but will almost always be a gain on max potency wildfires. As it stands your CD usage will look as follows

While your CD usage does indeed cycle in 15 seconds. Our damage cycles are 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 with mildfires sprikled in 2, 4, 6, 8
1: QR, Reload, GR, HC, Ric, Reass, WF, RF, BS, FT
2: Reload, QR, WF, RF, Ricc, Reass, FT
3: QR, Reload, GR, HC, Ric, Reass, WF, RF, BS, FT
4: Reload, QR, WF, RF, Ricc, Reass, FT
5: QR, Reload, GR, HC, Ric, Reass, WF, RF, BS, FT

This is the most efficient dynamic we can reach in terms of doing damage. Sticking to this as closely as possible so that our CD's remain sync is absolutely the most important thing. For bursting unexpected objectives we have Overdrive. Any unsync from your max potency hypercharge induced WF is a big negative. And delaying hypercharge is a rDPS loss meaning you absolutely must use it when it comes back up. To this end, we have to play with expert precision in order to maintain your cycle. If you're extremely proficient in your heat management you can enter every wildfire phase the EXACT second reload comes up and proceed into your build up of WF without using FT. But that requires a level of proficiency that has to be trained.

[Heimdalgc]

Please fix next patch....

[Guulu]

My rotation with overheat WF starts with flamethrower to go overheat.

My rotation with normal WF also include flamethrower as an oGCD.

But since flamethrower is kinda clunky to use and it doesn't seem to be parsed correctly atm, I can't tell if it does damage in fight. A reminder that if you're going to use it as an oGCD, your heat at the start of WF shouldn't be higher than 75. Or you'll go overheat at the end of WF, and it is likely that BS is down, which is a big lost to potency (~10 GCD with 30 lower potency each, not able to use ~5 ammo, that is ~425 potency lost).

Also rook overload seriously need a buff. It is straight out a potency lost even under hypercharge and it crit during WF:

turret up for 30s: 80*10=800
crit overload with WF: 400*1.5*1.25*1.05=787.5

Unless combined with like trick attack, the balance, other 5% damage buff, it is still only ~200 higher, and that is when it crit. If it doesn't crit, it is a potency lost no matter what.

[Fannah]

Also rook overload seriously need a buff. It is straight out a potency lost even under hypercharge and it crit during WF:

turret up for 30s: 80*10=800
crit overload with WF: 400*1.5*1.25*1.05=787.5

Unless combined with like trick attack, the balance, other 5% damage buff, it is still only ~200 higher, and that is when it crit. If it doesn't crit, it is a potency lost no matter what.

I agree the skill looks weak, but you still have to consider its burst utility in dps check phase. Thinking SE believe it to be a viable dps thing would be wrong. You need to dps, let the turret attack over time. You need to burst for dps check, blow up that turret at the end of this dps check phase. Then very often after such phase, there is a moment where to boss jumps/gets invulnerability/untargetable. So meanwhile a turret wouldn't have attack either. Don't look at what it doesn't do. Look at what it does.