Why is Machinist DPS SOOOO BAD?

[Mindiori]

Those ahead of my Machinist who can play the job well find themselves in the ballpark of 10% less. Someone has to be last.

A few tweaks fine. But lets not pretend a little challenge compared to the braindead 1234 of every other job, and thus a slightly lower metric, requires another huge overhaul. Game is boring enough as it is. Overall output could be tuned with the most minor potency adjustments and people optimising their gameplay. From a non-direct comparison to other classes, people on server linkshells seem to find their dps fine; and as I level, so do I.

[Elnidfse]

Those ahead of my Machinist who can play the job well find themselves in the ballpark of 10% less. Someone has to be last.

A few tweaks fine. But lets not pretend a little challenge compared to the braindead 1234 of every other job, and thus a slightly lower metric, requires another huge overhaul. .

1) Being last place is fine. Being below your sister job when played at equal levels of skill is not okay when BRD also brings more utility.
2) Thinking that this is an argument established by people who haven't mastered their gameplan is incorrect.
And to that argument
3) Nobody is asking for an overhaul. They're asking for tweaks. And "minor potency" adjustments aren't going to close the currently existing gap between us and BRD.

[Heimdalgc]

Just add 10 potency to each skill, another 10 to overheat, wildfire 15 seconds, hot shot give 25 heat. And gay as barrel ad 10%, not 5%

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

I dunno but its fucking great in PVP, haven't had this much fun in a very long time. Its passed out my main in level (haven't had much time to play since the expansion hit) by the sheer amount of PVP I have been doing.

I heard its lackluster at 70, but in PVP its a wrecking ball.

[Feidam]

I keep seeing mch have less utility than bards. But when I look at the abilit lists seems about equal to me. What am I missing?

[Elnidfse]

What am I missing?

Less .5% rDPS contribution (~1.34% v ~2%) among other things;
Less personal DPS
No 20% healing up
No 15% buff for health or defense
No Raid crit or direct hit benefits

Instead we have role skills that bards can share too.
Vulnerability (which is overall for reasons listed above)
And dismantle. Which, when comparing 10% to 15% it's very clear which one has a larger impact over a larger period of time.

[RLofOBFL]

I keep seeing mch have less utility than bards. But when I look at the abilit lists seems about equal to me. What am I missing?

BRD has:
Party wide Crit rate +2% with 100% uptime
3% damage buff with Foe's that last 7 server tics or 21 seconds that can be reapplied approximately every 2:30 minutes
20 second 15% direct hit up every 3 minutes
A 45 second instant esuna
A 10% magic or phys vuln for 30 seconds every 3 minutes
A 15 second single target mantra(good for tanks)

MCH has:
A 5 second 10% damage down on one enemy every 90 seconds
A 5% damage up for one or all enemies for 29 seconds every 2 minutes

Then they both also have mp/tp regen and a 20% phys down for 10 seconds in cross role.

[Shunye]

BRD has:
Party wide Crit rate +2% with 100% uptime
3% damage buff with Foe's that last 7 server tics or 21 seconds that can be reapplied approximately every 2:30 minutes
20 second 15% direct hit up every 3 minutes
A 45 second instant esuna
A 10% magic or phys vuln for 30 seconds every 3 minutes
A 15 second single target mantra(good for tanks)

MCH has:
A 5 second 10% damage down on one enemy every 90 seconds
A 5% damage up for one or all enemies for 29 seconds every 2 minutes

Then they both also have mp/tp regen and a 20% phys down for 10 seconds in cross role.

let's be real here. when we are talking about "utility" we are talking about damage buffs. people who have actually done the math have bard buffs at around 1.25% raid damage where as mch buffs are around 1.5%. just because people can't distinuish between pure damage and different stats doesnt mean bards are bringing some godly utility.

[Elnidfse]

let's be real here. when we are talking about "utility" we are talking about damage buffs. people who have actually done the math have bard buffs at around 1.25% raid damage where as mch buffs are around 1.5%. just because people can't distinuish between pure damage and different stats doesnt mean bards are bringing some godly utility.

When people talk about utility they are not solely talking about damage buffs. That's why people mention RDM's entire kit when discussing where it stands among BLM. Because that "utility" you're underselling, such as the ability to do high potency off heals and instant cast resurrections are things that progressions FCs value. It's the reason why dismantle exists as a skill and our refreshes are in high demand. So no, utility isn't weighed solely among the damage giving potential that the individual jobs do, and is instead the entire kit.

Edit: I've redone my math and put it in a vacuum, negating Foe's Requiem because I frankly don't know how I should math it out given the many factors you can put into play to modify it. It's marginal anyways. Time for the numbers.
A MCH over the course of a 10 minute fight will raise rDPS ~1.3% (1.3158% far removed from 1.33 relatively).

A BRD over that same fight ignoring Foe's raises rDPS 1.9% (1.895%). This goes up (marginally) when factoring in Foes. And mind you this is being GENEROUS. Because both of these factors (crit and direct hit) are additive to preexisting values and straight DPS increases are multiplicative, the damage increase baseline for raid contribution is far sharper than this if you do something silly like factor in baseline crit, and then math the difference with and without it.

Not only is 1.25%(BRD) to 1.5%(MCH) wrong mathematically it's completely opposite in regards to effectiveness.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I won't say it's the 100% tried and true best method, but I don't use Flamethrower to push OH. Instead, it's my lowest priority heat management tool, generally used if BS is on cooldown to ramp back up to 50. Then the Reloads and Cooldown are my go-to. Could just be me, but I feel the amount of time to ramp back to 50 with it is less than perhaps Hot Shot x5. Less damage for sure, but also less unheated downtime.