Paladin nerf INC

[Kalocin]

PLD's dont need a nerf, other tanks need a buff. And no "PLDs were weak for HW" is terrible logic. The game should strive for balance, not fotm.

I think this pretty much says everything as a whole about tank buffs/nerfs.

[DjinnKarsh]

All this brouhaha about buffing wars, nerfing plds etc, is the result of simply inhaling ones own flatulence whilst gaming.

Continuance

in order to do so, one must bag the saucy gasses for a said number of hours. Thus inhalling your spread in all its buoyant glory

THIZZ FACE

[Otorinth]

It may be more work to buff the WAR and DRK up to the PLD's level, but damned if it won't provide a better outcome than just flat out nerfing PLD. People shouldn't be striving for the balance of one at the cost of another.

[Tila]

It may be more work to buff the WAR and DRK up to the PLD's level, but damned if it won't provide a better outcome than just flat out nerfing PLD. People shouldn't be striving for the balance of one at the cost of another.

The big problem is that PLD simply has way to much utility. You cant fix that unless you either flat out REMOVE their stuff, or give WAR and DRK whole new things or add effects to what they have.

So long as PLD has more utility than the others, it has to lose out somewhere: either defense or damage. They can't keep it all unless square is willing to overhaul the tanks.

[Dzian]

Nope. No need and working as intended. Though they could build shield oath gage faster.

At higher levels the shield oath gauge goes up so fast you won't know what to do with it half the time

I thought it was really slow until I got holy spirit

[Paladinleeds]

As a paladin myself, I must say I think they need an extreme nerf. Stupid amounts of utility, good damage, able to block physical and magical damage. They seem to have all of the upsides with none of the downsides that DRK/WAR has. I think reducing their damage by 90% while increasing their enmity in Shield Oath only to compensate would be a good enough nerf. Extreme looking? Definitely, but with all the utility the PLD brings, I think it'll be needed. That way if you want a balance of damage and utility, you take DRK, and for all out damage (near enough), take WAR. Where you need lots of defence and utility, take PLD. Make each one situational and useful in different ways.

[MomoOG]

As a paladin myself, I must say I think they need an extreme nerf. Stupid amounts of utility, good damage, able to block physical and magical damage. They seem to have all of the upsides with none of the downsides that DRK/WAR has. I think reducing their damage by 90% while increasing their enmity in Shield Oath only to compensate would be a good enough nerf. Extreme looking? Definitely, but with all the utility the PLD brings, I think it'll be needed. That way if you want a balance of damage and utility, you take DRK, and for all out damage (near enough), take WAR. Where you need lots of defence and utility, take PLD. Make each one situational and useful in different ways.

I think this is literally the worst thing you could do. At the end of the day dps is more useful than mitigation on tanks. Also utility needs to be defined because dps utility is again far more useful than mitigation utility. I realize this sounds paradoxical but I will explain by copy and pasting a reply I had made in another thread on the same subject.

"Okay let me break it down. Mitigation at the end of the day for a tank is fairly binary. You either have enough mitigation to survive what you are tanking or you don't. It does not have an infinite cap in utility the way damage does (infinite is a clear exaggeration as dps limits are set by the amount of hp the enemy has but on a practical level dps cap is infinite). In simple terms, more dps is always useful while mitigation has a hard drop off in use. Why does this cause a problem? If all tanks are able to survive an encounter there is no purpose to being a "mitigation specialized" tank. Everyone will min/max their groups with "dps tanks". If an encounter is designed so that only the mitigation based tank can survive than we have a very problematic situation where some classes designed as tanks (the dps tanks) aren't even able to perform their basic role of being a tank. More often than not the first scenario is going to occur and "mitigation tanks" get the short end of the stick and get excluded from groups. Or Mitigation tanks are more useful as progression occurs and then once people understand the encounters or become more geared the mitigation based tanks are again excluded from groups.

Now one can argue that the mitigation based tank can be designated as the main tank and the dps tanks can be designated as the off tanks but this would again only hold if the encounter is designed such that there is so much damage that the dps tanks simply can't fulfill the role of the main tank.

One could finally argue that the mitigation tank is able to take so much less dmg that the healers are than able to dps that much more to make up the dps loss of having a mitigation tank. This results in far more difficult balancing act because now balance is now going involving interdependence of classes."

[VargasVermillion]

That way if you want a balance of damage and utility, you take DRK, and for all out damage (near enough), take WAR. Where you need lots of defence and utility, take PLD. Make each one situational and useful in different ways.

They tried this in heavensward and all that happened was PLD got benched. Extra mitigation means nothing if all tanks can survive the content (which they should.)

[Paladinleeds]

They tried this in heavensward and all that happened was PLD got benched. Extra mitigation means nothing if all tanks can survive the content (which they should.)

In Heavensward it was more that Paladin was the physical mitigation tank (but useless at magical mitigation), DRK was the magical mitigation tank (but meh at physical mitigation), and WAR was the DPS tank. The raids in Heavensward were almost exclusively magical damage so it made PLD useless. Where physical mitigation occurred (such as in some ex primals), PLD became much more favoured. Now in Stormblood, PLD could become the mitigation tank for both physical and magical damage (now they can block magic damage in SB, which they couldn't in HW), and I don't think they'd simply be benched.

[VargasVermillion]

In Heavensward it was more that Paladin was the physical mitigation tank (but useless at magical mitigation), DRK was the magical mitigation tank (but meh at physical mitigation), and WAR was the DPS tank. The raids in Heavensward were almost exclusively magical damage so it made PLD useless. Where physical mitigation occurred (such as in some ex primals), PLD became much more favoured. Now in Stormblood, PLD could become the mitigation tank for both physical and magical damage (now they can block magic damage in SB, which they couldn't in HW), and I don't think they'd simply be benched.

Even if that's the case, extra mitigation still means nothing when the other tanks can still survive the content. Damage is always more desired and always will be until SE does an overhaul which they never will. If you take a large hit and are left with 10k hp instead of 6k it doesn't make a difference, you survived the tank buster you can keep on hitting stuff.