Incentives to NOT queue as DPS

[Ellenthall]

Driving a car is simple, but driving into a pole will kill you.
Solving a rubix cube is complex, but failing to solve a rubix cube means you get sore fingers.

Demanding means it requires more of you, not that failure to meet those demands has a worse outcome.

By definition, you are wrong.

It depends on what you mean by 'demanding'. Healers have to not only handle the same mechanics as DPS (and sometimes more), but they also have to know boss mechanics to anticipate tank busters, raid wide dps, etc. Therefore, fights in general are more demanding on healers -- and to a certain extent tanks.

If you are looking at it from a button mashing standpoint, then yeah -- having a few cures, a cleanse, and some buffs isn't that complicated. It's all of the extra things healers have to manage that makes it 'demanding'. That, and the margin for error is much smaller than with DPS. A good healer can make up for bad DPS; the reverse, however, is not true.

[ilea]

Agreed -- I don't think changing the amount of DPS in a dungeon is tenable as a solution. That's 1-3 more DPS a tank has to keep track of; that's so much more damage being thrown out, which would make dungeons even more of a faceroll than they often are.

As far as the tier rewards, I'd love more EXP/misc rewards. I like gil, but something with more momentum (a mount/title/glamour) would spur me to queue more often.

[Kosmos992k]

Agreed -- I don't think changing the amount of DPS in a dungeon is tenable as a solution. That's 1-3 more DPS a tank has to keep track of; that's so much more damage being thrown out, which would make dungeons even more of a faceroll than they often are.

As far as the tier rewards, I'd love more EXP/misc rewards. I like gil, but something with more momentum (a mount/title/glamour) would spur me to queue more often.

Oh, I agree about rewards, I was using the gil as a way of illustrating the scaling, I'd prefer incentives other than gil to be honest.

[Zojha]

Agreed -- I don't think changing the amount of DPS in a dungeon is tenable as a solution. That's 1-3 more DPS a tank has to keep track of; that's so much more damage being thrown out, which would make dungeons even more of a faceroll than they often are.

What do DPS contribute to the party? Right, DPS. You know what Damage interacts with? Health. So all you need to do is to increase the health of the mobs proportionally and literally nothing would change - Except for a few select mechanics.
For your standard, run of the mill telegraphed AoE, it doesn't matter if there's one or one hundred DPS. It's when every player gets an individual marker or similar that things stop working, because you might run out of space to place the AoEs. I couldn't name an example in 4 man content off the bat, but that's where adjustments would actually need to be done. Though you could always just make the dungeons more difficult that way and tell people to deal - making them less faceroll in the process.

Tanking however doesn't get more difficult at all - the aggro of every DPS is tracked separately, otherwise tanks wouldn't work in 24 man raids at all. There are 15 DPS in those and tanks manage fine, because more DPS doesn't mean you need to generate more aggro.
Healing doesn't get considerably more difficult either - AoE heals have no fall-off, so group wide damage and single-target damage remain as is. If medica two can take care of the injuries of 2 DPS, it can also take care of the injuries of 200 equally injured DPS. If only one DPS gets targeted in the first place, there's no change either. The worst case of all DPS failing mechanics is the harsh part, because then you actually need to use more healing spells than you'd normally do.

It's not as much re-balancing as people make it out to be for 4-man groups. It's 8-man content and savage raids where the idea is more problematic - Alexander 12 Savage comes to mind, where you have your diffamation, tethers and the portals. A11 Savage as well, because there would be little space left at the clock positions. Those are some real issues that would need to be retroactively addressed on a case-by-case basis. 4-man content has not enough mechanics of that kind to matter IMO.

[Dzian]

Recently suggested this in a similar thread. Scrap the adventure in need EXP bonus entirely. instead make it a useable scroll type item that players can use on any job they so choose

If you had a scroll (ffxi players might remember things like miramettes memoirs) then you could run the roulette as a tank or whatever job job in need get a scroll and use it for an exp boost on any job you wanted. maybe equivelant of 10% of whatever level that job currently is.. so if I ran levelling roulette as a pld and used that scroll on my 60 blm. it'd be about 400k exp... it would need to scale though in order to work. because if it was just a flat boost. at a certain point it'd just not be worthwhile. kinda like what happens with guildhest roulette. even in mid 60s its still only 30k exp which is not even 0.5% of a level

Something like that would incentivise a lot of players to roll as a tank / healer and still allow them to level there dps jobs. this would have a 2 fold positive effect on queues..

Firstly it would increase the number of tanks and healers thus reducing queue times for everyone...
if I had the option of running levelling roulette on dps and getting 900k exp with a half hour queue or getting 400k exp with no queue I know which i'd choose...

the second positive effect is that allowing these players to level there dps jobs whilst running roulettes as tanks/healers would also in turn decrease the numbers of players in dps queues for the rest of the playerbase and that again means even faster queues for everyone.

it would be such a simple thing to implement andwould almost certainly improve queue times across all the roulettes

Essentially with this idea everyone wins.

[Furiea]

Recently suggested this in a similar thread. Scrap the adventure in need EXP bonus entirely. instead make it a useable scroll type item that players can use on any job they so choose

If you had a scroll (ffxi players might remember things like miramettes memoirs) then you could run the roulette as a tank or whatever job job in need get a scroll and use it for an exp boost on any job you wanted. maybe equivelant of 10% of whatever level that job currently is.. so if I ran levelling roulette as a pld and used that scroll on my 60 blm. it'd be about 400k exp... it would need to scale though in order to work. because if it was just a flat boost. at a certain point it'd just not be worthwhile. kinda like what happens with guildhest roulette. even in mid 60s its still only 30k exp which is not even 0.5% of a level

Something like that would incentivise a lot of players to roll as a tank / healer and still allow them to level there dps jobs. this would have a 2 fold positive effect on queues.. firstly it would increase the number of tanks and healers thus reducing queue times for everyone...
if I had the option of running levelling roulette on dps and getting 900k exp with a half hour queue or getting 400k exp with no queue I know which i'd choose...

the second positive effect is that allowing these players to level there dps jobs whilst running roulettes as tanks/healers would also in turn decrease the dps queues for the rest of the playerbase and that again means even faster queues for everyone

it would be such a simple thing to implement and could would almost certainly improve queue times across all the roulettes

Essentially with this idea everyone wins
.

That's what I have been saying in multiple threads created by non tanks trying to solve the issue.

I love play tanks, but I can not level other jobs while playing Tanks. give me a way to play tank while leveling other jobs and I will always play tanks. AKA.. exp potion / exp scroll additional reward like Tomestone for Max lvl tanks would be nice too.

[KisaiTenshi]

Recently suggested this in a similar thread. Scrap the adventure in need EXP bonus entirely. instead make it a useable scroll type item that players can use on any job they so choose

If you had a scroll (ffxi players might remember things like miramettes memoirs) then you could run the roulette as a tank or whatever job job in need get a scroll and use it for an exp boost on any job you wanted.

That would be pointless, because then just like PotD, people would just spam whatever gets them the EXP the fastest, regardless if they have the skill.

What is happening is that people simply do-not-want to play tank or healer because they aren't DPS, and they don't like being shoe-horned into a role that doesn't let them kill things quickly. PotD is outright mockery of the gameplay, because now you see people with straight 60's or 70's, and all they did was spam PotD, not play the dungeon content, and the reason they didn't play the dungeon content? Queues, and people being a toxic to each other about how to play the game. People aren't cooperating in PotD they are just running into rooms and letting mobs spawn all around them and if everyone dies, reset progress and start over, at most 15 minutes are lost. Faster than losing 30 from getting a bad team in dungeon content.

What does that say? That says that PotD is bad. It may be fun to do a few times, but it's an absolutely slog to use as a way to grind exp or tomes. SE made a mistake in having this content hand out rewards like candy. It should never have handed out experience. Likewise PvP should never have handed out experience. Now that both hand out more experience than doing the actual content, THAT is why there are queues. It may provide an alternate for DPS to level while there are queues, but what is the point if people don't learn the game mechanics?

What I'd almost suggest at this point is SE release a new healer and tank class and make sure it can NOT be leveled from PotD. Otherwise it will do nothing to solve content queues.

As for what, the answer for tanking is staring us in the face, create a Magitek "tank" job in the same idea that we have with the Magitek mount, only a bit more like D.Va in Overwatch where the player switches between gun-blade (DPS mode) and Tank mode (tank armor mode.) The plot line for this could even be as simple as Cid's Ironworks team creating a Magitek Knight (Tank) job, and the job storyline would involve some solo-instances into Garlean buildings to get the blueprints for thigns.

For Healer, let's look at a non-magic based healer for completeness. We have a one tank that uses MP, we can have one healer that doesn't use MP.

[Paladinleeds]

For Healer, let's look at a non-magic based healer for completeness. We have a one tank that uses MP, we can have one healer that doesn't use MP.

I wonder if Dancer would be perfect for that. A Dancer healer would be perfect IMO.

[Furiea]

I wonder if Dancer would be perfect for that. A Dancer healer would be perfect IMO.

Dancer healer will get the PT killed. why? because everyone will be looking at the dancer dancing and you you know what ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Aomine1992]

Either they just need to come out with another tank and healer class, because in HW this problem was not to big of an issue.....or just give dps a little more exp to balance out the wait time between tanks and healers going twice while you're still waiting for one que

Honestly the only way around this is to never never never ever just realease two dps classes that was the worst idea for que times hands down and plus only like 1 healer is good and 1 tank is good while the rest have some balancing issues...