Incentives to NOT queue as DPS

[Ayerinn]

I can fix queue times in 5 seconds. Ready?
5....4....3....2....1....change light party from 4 to 5 players (1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps) like a ton of other MMO's - FIXED!

I'm half joking at how fast that change would be - but with the current ratio of tank/heals to DPS specs the 1:1:2 does not make sense any longer. Adding even more new tank/heal classes will not help in the long run (just ooo new and shiny short duration "fix") More incentives will just give more free stuff to people who actually like tanking/healing - not fix queue times because more people do it (a few might, sure but it won't change much.)

[Felis]

I can fix queue times in 5 seconds. Ready?
5....4....3....2....1....change light party from 4 to 5 players (1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps) like a ton of other MMO's - FIXED!

I prefer 1 tank, 2 healer and 5 DPS. And dungeons in 1.x difficulty

[Kosmos992k]

I can fix queue times in 5 seconds. Ready?
5....4....3....2....1....change light party from 4 to 5 players (1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps) like a ton of other MMO's - FIXED!

I'm half joking at how fast that change would be - but with the current ratio of tank/heals to DPS specs the 1:1:2 does not make sense any longer. Adding even more new tank/heal classes will not help in the long run (just ooo new and shiny short duration "fix") More incentives will just give more free stuff to people who actually like tanking/healing - not fix queue times because more people do it (a few might, sure but it won't change much.)

Unfortunately, the entire game is balanced around the existing trinity and ratio of DPS to heals to tanks. To add a fifth DPS to the parties would require a lot of re-balancing that would affect every multi-player instance.

[Ayerinn]

Unfortunately, the entire game is balanced around the existing trinity and ratio of DPS to heals to tanks. To add a fifth DPS to the parties would require a lot of re-balancing that would affect every multi-player instance.

indeed it would...but it is the best solution to the issue that will never go away no matter how many incentives you try to give players to play a healer or tank. Why do you think SCH/WAR/DRK are mad their damage got gutted? People like to do damage and that made those jobs palatable to them. The addition of two highly requested, OP DPS jobs AND nerfing tank/healer damage is a recipe for disaster...as we clearly are feeling that at the moment.

[HELLruler]

Honestly, I don't think there's reason to push people to play healer/tank. What's the point of having them do it and perform badly?

Tanking and healing is a lot more demanding than dpsing; so if you are not into it, you are probably messing up the run for another 3/7 people

A solution, in my opinion, would be have players not queue as DPS. Remove the daily roulette rewards if you go as a DPS, nerf dungeon exp for them and buff quest/FATE exp so they go do something else

[Furious]

Honestly, I don't think there's reason to push people to play healer/tank. What's the point of having them do it and perform badly?

Tanking and healing is a lot more demanding than dpsing; so if you are not into it, you are probably messing up the run for another 3/7 people

A solution, in my opinion, would be have players not queue as DPS. Remove the daily roulette rewards if you go as a DPS, nerf dungeon exp for them and buff quest/FATE exp so they go do something else

Tanking and healing are definitely not more demanding than dpsing, they just have higher punishments for doing them badly. Tanking in general is rotationally way easier than dps, and healers spend a lot of time casting spells, have somewhat limited and situational ogcds, and dps rotations are literally 2-button most of the time, if that.

[KisaiTenshi]

Tanking and healing are definitely not more demanding than dpsing, they just have higher punishments for doing them badly. Tanking in general is rotationally way easier than dps, and healers spend a lot of time casting spells, have somewhat limited and situational ogcds, and dps rotations are literally 2-button most of the time, if that.

You're forgetting higher harassment for not going with the meta, or speed running, or not speed running, or big pulling, or not big pulling. There's no one-tank-pleases all. Likewise for the Healer. You get a tank that wants to multi-pull with a healer who wants to DPS and that ends in a wipe. Big pull wipes are always the tanks fault, but DPS'ing healers are likewise at fault if the pulls are normal, and they're just using regen or the fairy. Those two things will not keep the tank alive.

But because people have been spoiled on PotD's gameplay, now DPS just rush into mobs while the tank is pulling. Like no, if you start attacking the mobs before the tank has stopped moving, I'm not healing you, because I need to follow the tank.

I keep seeing this on Castrum Meridianum, where the doors open, and some DPS will run straight into the group of 6 Colossus. Yes this content is faceroll, but a healer doesn't need to die with you by trying to heal DPS that are being bad.

[Ellenthall]

Tanking and healing are definitely not more demanding than dpsing, they just have higher punishments for doing them badly. Tanking in general is rotationally way easier than dps, and healers spend a lot of time casting spells, have somewhat limited and situational ogcds, and dps rotations are literally 2-button most of the time, if that.

By definition, having a higher punishment for messing up makes it more demanding. I can't believe you're actually attempting to argue this point, lol.

[Ellenthall]

Decouple gear progression from 4 mans (i.e., tomes), and you've solved this problem. Sure, people can get the drops from the 4 man dungeons, but only as a means to progress to 8 and 24 man content to get better/best gear (which have more DPS slots, hence lower Q times for DPS). Tomes would essentially go away. They're not needed.

SE can then provide really cool incentives for people who are geared to return to that content -- not chump-change gil. Mounts, unique glamours, crafting gear/recipes, etc. Basically, anything you can think of that's cool/worthwhile doing outside of gear progression throw into the pot of 'rewards'. And, ofc, you'd wanna do that content quickly so you'd likely Q as a tank or healer.

tlDR: No tomes for gear. More 8/24 man content for gear. Provide better rewards for those that are geared to do lower/repeatable content.

[Furious]

By definition, having a higher punishment for messing up makes it more demanding. I can't believe you're actually attempting to argue this point, lol.

Driving a car is simple, but driving into a pole will kill you.
Solving a rubix cube is complex, but failing to solve a rubix cube means you get sore fingers. Unless maybe the mafia kidnapped your son or daughter and is holding them at knife-edge based on your performance with a rubix cube, I guess.

Demanding means it requires more of you, not that failure to meet those demands has a worse outcome.

By definition, you are wrong.